Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Patrick Gerard]

Of course, the thing I'm forced to wonder about is...

spoilers:

as shown in stories such as The Three Doctors, it takes a lot (even by Time Lord standards) of energy and jiggery-pokery for multiple versions of the one person to exist at the same point in Space Time. The RuthDoctor exists when Gallifrey is at full power from what we can tell. Would not this mixing of time lines be sounding every alarm on Gallifrey?

end of spoilers

Couple of thoughts:

spoilers:

First of all, assuming a past Doctor, it could be that the larger secret of this season is that Time Lords don’t have limited regenerations and that every time they hit 12, typically, they’d have their memory of several erased. So this plays off the Season 2B theory and might have the second Doctor going through ten more incarnations only to have his memory wiped and sent back thinking he’s on the third. It’s probably relevant that none of the multi-Doctor memory rules seem to apply here. Another possibility is that Gallifrey and the Doctor split off at some point. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say that Capaldi became Whitaker but he also became Ruth and that each Doctor in synced to a version of Gallifrey that matches their actions. One earth, multiple Doctors and Gallifreys with separate personal timelines but sharing one earth and one universe. So we’ve got 13A and 13B and maybe they’ll have to put their timelines back together to become 14. Another convoluted possibility is that the Doctor’s timeline splinters every time he/she regenerates in the TARDIS as kind of a Schrödinger’s cat thing and so you have branching TARDISes and a bunch of spare companions running around that the Doctor never noticed because of how The Doctor is. Some weird version of this might allow for the long rumored Rose return and even Amy or Rory if it’s a messy situation where every time the Doctor regenerates or the TARDIS goes somewhere it splinters off and there’s twenty some Brigadiers and Sarah Janes and Claras and Alaric’s and Jamies, etc. roaming around a single earth. Maybe the secret of the Timeless Child is that there’s only one TARDIS that’s been “cloned” through a series of grandfather paradoxes or something like that. There is, always, the long running theory that there’s only one (or two) Time Lords. I can recall that one dating back years. The idea being that either the same Time Lord is assigned a new identity without memories every twelve or however many allotted regenerations. Or otherwise that Rassilon/Omega/The Other creates duplicates of themselves or their offspring with a grandfather paradox. I think finding out there is only one Time Lord would certainly prompt the Master to do what he did, particularly if he finds out all the Doctors come after him in sequence. The idea of using a grandfather paradox to duplicate something which causes a grandfather paradox continues to exist without any history required and you can just keep replicating the paradox to create more until you create a whole species by sending the same child back in time with a gun to kill his grandfather six billion times. Every time one succeeds, they become an orphan of a dead future and you can just repeat the process to make more.

end of spoilers

[ChrisIII]

There are possible alternate Doctors. In the original series there's a Doctor mentioned, but not seen, who is the "Merlin" to a group of Arthurian knights from another dimension (Battlefield).


There's also 10B in Rose's world although he's supposed to be mostly human and unable to regenerate.

Kind of curious about Lee. He also read as Human but seemed to have his memories so maybe it was only a halfway Chameleon change. Ruth also seemed more trigger happy than her later incarnations, and there's her mysterious 'work'. It's possible she, Lee and Gat are actually from Gallifrey's dark times/time of chaos, where the Time Lords generally were seen as more nasty and militaristic even by Time War standards before they began their strict non-interference stuff. Maybe stuff got so bad for the Doctor that by the time of the Hartnell incarnation he or she decided to wipe the memory just to stay sane. Given how much the Time War did a number on the Doctor, even refusing to accept his war persona as part of himself, there might be good reason.


Also the Doctor's weird flashback seems to resemble a young Ruth and is standing close to a lighthouse-like structure as well.

Definetly a lot of questions....

[Zero Hunter]

I wonder if this is going to turn into another Valeyard type thing honestly. A character that is the Doctor but not really.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Honestly, I'm hoping its Susan or Romana in a new incarnation but that would feel off.



I'm relistening to "Dark Eyes" and enjoying it. Molly O'Sullivan is Clara done right.

[Cyke]

I'm just going along for the ride. This past episode was so whirlwind that I have to remember the principle of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

With that said, the show's always been better than most at keeping its internal continuity consistent, plus it wasn't that long ago that we saw the TARDIS's pre-police box form.

Only one real gripe: I've long defended the number of companions here even though Yaz has been lacking. We finally get a story that seems custom-built to play up to her strengths (Earth cop vs. Space cops, both in search of a fugitive) and yet... She still contributes the least to the story, once again. Her police skills amount to zero in the spotlight. It makes me think that it's possible to balance three companions, if only the writers actually cared about all three.

[KabutoRyder]

I'm just going along for the ride. This past episode was so whirlwind that I have to remember the principle of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

With that said, the show's always been better than most at keeping its internal continuity consistent, plus it wasn't that long ago that we saw the TARDIS's pre-police box form.

Only one real gripe: I've long defended the number of companions here even though Yaz has been lacking. We finally get a story that seems custom-built to play up to her strengths (Earth cop vs. Space cops, both in search of a fugitive) and yet... She still contributes the least to the story, once again. Her police skills amount to zero in the spotlight. It makes me think that it's possible to balance three companions, if only the writers actually cared about all three.

Definitely in the boat that 3 is too many. Its annoying when one gets shafted per ep, why keep that problem going with three, just make it two. Heck ryan and graham would be great with the doc themselves.

[Cyke]

Definitely in the boat that 3 is too many. Its annoying when one gets shafted per ep, why keep that problem going with three, just make it two. Heck ryan and graham would be great with the doc themselves.

A rotation seems possible to me (one companion may get shafted an episode but they all take turns there equally. Even the Doctor and the lone companion have their occasional lite episodes), it's just that Yaz has kept getting underutilized since the first episode.

Star Trek did a decent job of alternating Spock, McCoy, and Scotty, all around Kirk. Even though Scotty had less to do than the other two, he'd still be, say, in charge of the ship or would lead another subplot. Yaz doesn't lead subplots, she's led by the guest of the week.

I also think back to the RTD days -- yeah, Mickey wasn't a companion until the end, but the two episodes where it was he, Rose, the Doctor, and Jack or Sarah Jane Smith, showed a good chemistry between the 4 (even if they were ragging on Mickey), the latter really showing Mickey taking agency.

For that matter, I'm going to pay attention to this on subsequent watches: Graham and Ryan exhibit a lot of agency, and that's good. Let's see if Yaz can make a decision for herself next time, and if that decision actually impacts the story.

[Indian Ink]

Only just saw the fourth episode last night. I preferred it to the previous one, but the jump to the train scene was very badly done. If you're going to do a cut like that, then you have to construct the dialogue to adjust for it. It was deeply, deeply, poorly written. So we have to believe, they walked to a train station, bought a ticket, waited for the train, got on, and only then the Doctor introduces herself?! Such rubbish, I thought they must have used the Tardis to board it to begin with, and wondered why Tesla wasn't still marveling at it. Of course we later find out he hadn't seen it yet. So how did the doctor get the Tardis to New York later? Was it also put on the train? Did she send it ahead by itself? Can she even do that?

My wife thought Edison was supposed to be a nod to Donald Trump. It's possible she's right, but I didn't notice it 'till she pointed it out.

Another children's story also watchable for adults. I mostly enjoyed this one, but I think I'm coming to a firm realization that I'm not a huge fan of Jodie's Doctor, as I seem to like the story more before she gushes on to the event. Not sure if it's the writers or the actor, perhaps a little of both.

[KabutoRyder]

Another possibility is that Gallifrey and the Doctor split off at some point. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say that Capaldi became Whitaker but he also became Ruth and that each Doctor in synced to a version of Gallifrey that matches their actions. One earth, multiple Doctors and Gallifreys with separate personal timelines but sharing one earth and one universe. So we’ve got 13A and 13B and maybe they’ll have to put their timelines back together to become 14.

I need this in my life. I love aspects of this idea. Though me, I could see something like what they have for Batwoman with the Alice/Beth character, both from different realities/dimensions, they are running with a plot where they learn quite painfully, they cannot exist together. One must die.

So with this you would have Doc v Doc battling to not be assimilated..absorbed back into the other and driven from existence, or at least they think that would happen, but when in reality when one tried to absorb the other it triggers a regeneration into 14.

[ChrisIII]

Regarding the companion issue, Tomsin Cole just got cast in an AMC show (It has a two season order) so perhaps Ryan might leave.


I was thinking with Gallifrey being messed up right now, what this means about the Curator's line "Gallifrey falls no more". 'cause it sure looks like it fell some more. Maybe also Ruth has something to do with the Curator, since that seems to be another egnimatic incarnation of the Doctor (or at least is implied to be).

[ZeroBG82]

Regarding the companion issue, Tomsin Cole just got cast in an AMC show (It has a two season order) so perhaps Ryan might leave.


I was thinking with Gallifrey being messed up right now, what this means about the Curator's line "Gallifrey falls no more". 'cause it sure looks like it fell some more. Maybe also Ruth has something to do with the Curator, since that seems to be another egnimatic incarnation of the Doctor (or at least is implied to be).

Yaz's actress took a part on a new show as well. Could be we see the whole group depart.

[ChrisIII]

Companions rarely stick around more than 2 years, with a few exceptions here and there (Sarah Jane).


It's kind of interesting that this season feels a lot like 25 from the McCoy years or season 9 from Capaldi's-sort of addressing that fans and audience weren't quite pleased with the previous introductory Doctor season and making some changes (less low-key, season story arc, returning monsters etc. although in Capaldi and McCoy's case their Doctor personas were modified, whereas Jodie seems mainly the same but they seem to be giving her more of an 'edge' and dark side that she kind of lacked last season). I think it's a bit in part because 24, 8, and 11 seemed to be fairly experimental seasons too.

[The Whovian]

Ruth can't be a previous or future incarnation at all.

Neither her nor Jodie remember each other. Also, Ruth's Tardis is stuck in that form in 1963 and we know that Hartnell's Doctor was surprised that his Tardis couldn't change anymore and that the chameleon circuit was damaged. So that doesn't line up either.

Odds are this is another poorly crafted story by Chibnall and he will try to shoe horn some ridiculous story into the Doctor's history that just doesn't make sense.

[ZeroBG82]

Ruth can't be a previous or future incarnation at all.

Neither her nor Jodie remember each other. Also, Ruth's Tardis is stuck in that form in 1963 and we know that Hartnell's Doctor was surprised that his Tardis couldn't change anymore and that the chameleon circuit was damaged. So that doesn't line up either.

Odds are this is another poorly crafted story by Chibnall and he will try to shoe horn some ridiculous story into the Doctor's history that just doesn't make sense.

Mind wipes are a thing. Even used already on this series, maybe as a setup? Even the Doctor has had things erased before (see Clara). So while it would be big, it wouldn't be a first.

And I've see it speculated that the reason why the TARDIS got "stuck" is because it recognized the Doctor from this (or these) prior incarnations and simply resumed it's form. But since the Doc doesn't remember, the nod is lost on him. Which could work.

[Kirby101]

Why didn't they compare past incarnations and what they remember about Galifry history. That would help place each other or give clues to "Who" they are.