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  1. #5731
    Fantastic Member tv horror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    So some of the advertisements for Sunday's episode say it'll be another 'shocking twist" episode similar to the Master reveal at the beginning of this season. Given that we're at the halfway point this season I'm guessing it's another addition to the "Timeless child" arc.

    There was a quick glimpse of a young woman maybe she is The Rani although that idea is spoilt now because of the strong performance of Missy.
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  2. #5732
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Holy... well... that happened.

    spoilers:
    So now presumably we have the fascinating situation of wondering how much happened before the Doctor remembered leaving Gallifrey with Susan in his first incarnation, and what exactly we'll be calling Ruth. The Minus Doctor? And are those Time Lords pre time travel, pre Omega and Rassilon? Oh and hello Jack Harkness and Cybermen being extinct! Lot to unpack in this episode.
    end of spoilers

  3. #5733
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    Holy... well... that happened.

    spoilers:
    So now presumably we have the fascinating situation of wondering how much happened before the Doctor remembered leaving Gallifrey with Susan in his first incarnation, and what exactly we'll be calling Ruth. The Minus Doctor? And are those Time Lords pre time travel, pre Omega and Rassilon? Oh and hello Jack Harkness and Cybermen being extinct! Lot to unpack in this episode.
    end of spoilers
    Maybe I'll give this episode a watch tonight.
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  4. #5734
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I just finished Fugitive of the Judoon.

    The Judoon still come across as budget/second tier Sontarans. They're an alien that the show is probably best off forgetting about.
    Nice to see Captain Jack again and Jack Barrowman was obviously enjoying the role.
    Jack's ship, however, looked CHEAP. "hey guys, empty warehouse. Let's just stick some random props around. No one will notice." The control console of said ship, however, had a very 80s control console look to it - and the outside looked a lot like the Time Station from Trial of a Time Lord.

    spoilers:
    The big twist is, of course, that there's another Doctor. One, apparently, from the past. This Doctor, being in possession of a police box shaped TARDIS, already causes an incredible number of continuity issues.
    We've seen the Doctor as a child in a given point of Gallifrey History. We've seen the Doctor stealing the TARDIS for the first time.
    end of spoilers
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  5. #5735
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    Of course, the thing I'm forced to wonder about is...

    spoilers:
    as shown in stories such as The Three Doctors, it takes a lot (even by Time Lord standards) of energy and jiggery-pokery for multiple versions of the one person to exist at the same point in Space Time. The RuthDoctor exists when Gallifrey is at full power from what we can tell. Would not this mixing of time lines be sounding every alarm on Gallifrey?
    end of spoilers
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  6. #5736
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    So- have the judoon always been able to speak in complete sentences, or is this a recent development? And how come the doctor doesn’t have moves like her doppelgänger? I wonder if that third gallifreyan was the timeless child? I really loved the ending. For the first time in awhile, I really liked Ryan and yaz. Graham’s quiet belief in the doctor spoke volumes.
    Last edited by protege; 01-26-2020 at 08:42 PM.

  7. #5737

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    Honestly i thought it was great. I have no idea where this is going and i love it.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 01-26-2020 at 08:22 PM.

  8. #5738
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    What fun! This is easily my favorite episode of Jodie's tenure. Finally felt like proper Doctor Who. I laughed, I was surprised, I dug the stakes. They could easily muck this all up with a crappy explanation later, but this was just televised joy.

  9. #5739
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    I was pretty pleased with this episode. But I wasn't crazy about the reveal about Ruth. Seemed kind of hammered in to play with established canon at a whim. Still this was easily the best episode of the season thus far.
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  10. #5740

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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    So- have the judoon always been able to speak in complete sentences, or is this a recent development? And how come the doctor doesn’t have moves like her doppelgänger? I wonder if that third gallifreyan was the timeless child? I really loved the ending. For the first time in awhile, I really liked Ryan and yaz. Graham’s quiet belief in the doctor spoke volumes.
    A) i think they always able to speak in full sentences.

    B) in universe regeneration tends to scramble the Doctor's personality. Certain incarnations have different views/traits and that leads to skills. Technically the Doc has used Venusian Aikido in series 11 but is mostly a hands off kind of Doctor.

  11. #5741
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why the lone Cybermen thing is getting attention as well. The Cybermen have pretty much been wiped out even more than the Daleks. As early as the Second Doctor's era they're generally believed to be extinct at least twice, and of course there's the Fourth Doctor's line about them having become pretty much irrelevant. The new series also hasn't been all that clear about them either-although I think it's generally assumed that in Moffat's era the Cybermen were native to the universe (Their similar design to Cybus being a case of convergent evolution-for example we see the Mondasians 'evolve' into the Cybustypes in "The Doctor falls", and the Doctor in the same episode basically saying that Cybermen end up popping up all over the place, which actually helps make sense of the original series's shaky Cybermen continuity)
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  12. #5742
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathstroke View Post
    I was pretty pleased with this episode. But I wasn't crazy about the reveal about Ruth. Seemed kind of hammered in to play with established canon at a whim. Still this was easily the best episode of the season thus far.


    The Doctor having lives before Hartnell is something that's been teased before- The Brain of Morbius famously had members of the production crew dressed up as Doctors, although one of the explanations are that the faces are Morbius's regenerations. I don't think it was technically canon that Hartnell was the first until the Davison era. The McCoy era/Cartmel Masterplan also strongly hinted that the Doctor had some involvement in Gallifrey's distant past (The novels, although not really canon interpreted this as him being a sort of reincarnated version of a contemporary of Omega & Rassilon, and his Seventh incarnation was the most 'aware' of this).

    We know Time lords can wipe or supress memories-the Doctor's done it a few times and they did it to Jaime and Zoe. The Chameleon arch also serves that purpose too; when two or more incarnations are together their memories of the encounters are fuzzy at best (Missy, for example, didn't remember the events of Doctor falls from Simm's perspective, and of course the Doctor is always surprised by his or her new face) and of course when the Doctor regenerates the memory is also fuzzy for a few hours.

    So perhaps Hartnell's Doctor had his mind wiped at some point, making him believe he was the first version somehow. As for the TARDIS, maybe he was, in a way, stealing it *back* and maybe the ship or him subconsciously chose it to be a police box again.
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  13. #5743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    Holy... well... that happened.

    spoilers:
    So now presumably we have the fascinating situation of wondering how much happened before the Doctor remembered leaving Gallifrey with Susan in his first incarnation, and what exactly we'll be calling Ruth. The Minus Doctor? And are those Time Lords pre time travel, pre Omega and Rassilon? Oh and hello Jack Harkness and Cybermen being extinct! Lot to unpack in this episode.
    end of spoilers
    It's called having you cake and eating it to. Now you have the shot of doing a "new" Dr Who comic book and novel and audio line.

    It's a brilliant move in hindsight.

  14. #5744
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    What fun! This is easily my favorite episode of Jodie's tenure. Finally felt like proper Doctor Who. I laughed, I was surprised, I dug the stakes. They could easily muck this all up with a crappy explanation later, but this was just televised joy.
    My sentiments exactly. This episode had that something extra that all of the great DW stories have, but which has been lacking, IMO, recently.
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  15. #5745

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I'm not sure why the lone Cybermen thing is getting attention as well. The Cybermen have pretty much been wiped out even more than the Daleks. As early as the Second Doctor's era they're generally believed to be extinct at least twice, and of course there's the Fourth Doctor's line about them having become pretty much irrelevant. The new series also hasn't been all that clear about them either-although I think it's generally assumed that in Moffat's era the Cybermen were native to the universe (Their similar design to Cybus being a case of convergent evolution-for example we see the Mondasians 'evolve' into the Cybustypes in "The Doctor falls", and the Doctor in the same episode basically saying that Cybermen end up popping up all over the place, which actually helps make sense of the original series's shaky Cybermen continuity)
    The other reveal drowned it out and just feels more impactful to the series.

    The lone cybermen just feels like setup for another episode.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 01-27-2020 at 07:02 PM.

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