Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I can’t believe a wild theory I proposed here months ago actually happened. I never thought they’d do it.

[protege]

i think it might have been nice, when 15 mentioned sarah jane being gone, 14 and donna might have had a mention about her being his “ best friend.”

[ChrisIII]

RTD has said regarding the "Legions" of the Toymaker that it will include a sort of "pantheon" of god-like beings, including possibly some familiar ones. Of course, the guardians and Gods of Ragnarok were already name-dropped, but perhaps we'll see some others. The great Intelligence showed up in Matt's era of course, but maybe we'll see others like the Animus, Fenric, Osirians etc.



Kind of reminds me a bit of the New Adventures lore about the great old ones.

[Derek Metaltron]

Given RTD confirmed the apparent idea that every Doctor now gets to go on forever in their own timeline I bet Big Finish are rubbing their hands over that. Think about it:

- 1 never regenerates and carries on with Ben and Polly
- 2 hopefully gets out of the spinning vortex and either gets reunited with Jamie and does Two Doctors or helps with UNIT.
- 3 keeps working for UNIT and travels with Sarah Jane and Harry
- 4 wakes until the radio tower, safe and travels with Tegan, Nyssa and Adric
- 5 recovers from the toxins and keeps travelling with Peri
- 6 wakes up to battle the Rani again alongside Mel
- 7 wakes up inside the morgue and terrifies that night guard in 1999
- 8 never becomes a warrior on Karn and keeps fighting the Time War in his own way
- War gets a true retirement after knowing the Moment didn’t destroy Gallifrey and gets to have new less awful adventures, maybe meets Rose?
- 9 gets to carry on and have adventures with Rose
- 10 doesn’t go, gets to have his reward and meets Amy
- 11 gets to continue remembering and travels on with Clara
- 12 rocks on and meets the Fam
- 13 sees the sunset and is reunited with Yaz?

And presumably Fugitive and all the past Doctors maybe carry on in a LOT of timelines, Timeless Children depending.

[Catlady in training]

I loved all 3 specials. The bi-regeneration was bonkers, but in a good way and after all, the show would not be here today without taking risks like that.
Can't wait for the Christmas special now, Ncuti's Doctor looks amazing.

[Catlady in training]

Also, I liked the meta commentary about the current state of humanity: everyone thinks they are always right and has so much anger inside them just waiting to be unleashed in some self-righteous cause. I can see where RTD got that from .

[Derek Metaltron]

Also, I liked the meta commentary about the current state of humanity: everyone thinks they are always right and has so much anger inside them just waiting to be unleashed in some self-righteous cause. I can see where RTD got that from .

What’s good about that moment is that it covers every kind of political spectrum and angry thought and type of person. Because anyone can feel like they are right and angry from fear, distrust, intolerance, anxiety and every idle cruel impulse. It’s probably best they kept the wider aspects of it offscreen because he’d have likely been seen to focus on one selection over another.

[Deathstroke]

i think it might have been nice, when 15 mentioned sarah jane being gone, 14 and donna might have had a mention about her being his “ best friend.”

I can't remember, is that the first canonical mention of Sarah Jane having died?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Given RTD confirmed the apparent idea that every Doctor now gets to go on forever in their own timeline I bet Big Finish are rubbing their hands over that. Think about it:

- 1 never regenerates and carries on with Ben and Polly
- 2 hopefully gets out of the spinning vortex and either gets reunited with Jamie and does Two Doctors or helps with UNIT.
- 3 keeps working for UNIT and travels with Sarah Jane and Harry
- 4 wakes until the radio tower, safe and travels with Tegan, Nyssa and Adric
- 5 recovers from the toxins and keeps travelling with Peri
- 6 wakes up to battle the Rani again alongside Mel
- 7 wakes up inside the morgue and terrifies that night guard in 1999
- 8 never becomes a warrior on Karn and keeps fighting the Time War in his own way
- War gets a true retirement after knowing the Moment didn’t destroy Gallifrey and gets to have new less awful adventures, maybe meets Rose?
- 9 gets to carry on and have adventures with Rose
- 10 doesn’t go, gets to have his reward and meets Amy
- 11 gets to continue remembering and travels on with Clara
- 12 rocks on and meets the Fam
- 13 sees the sunset and is reunited with Yaz?

And presumably Fugitive and all the past Doctors maybe carry on in a LOT of timelines, Timeless Children depending.

It revamps the Unbound Doctor category.

[Vegeta]

I can't remember, is that the first canonical mention of Sarah Jane having died?

I think there was a funeral epilogue in the Sarah Jane Adventures.

I liked it, NPH was great and I loved the "well, that's ALL RIGHT then!" whenever the Doctor would mention how a dead companion (Amy, Bill, Clara) somehow survived in some manner. (I kind of found it a cop out in the Moffett era, that every companion got a "happy" ending even when their body was destroyed, etc.)

I also loved seeing the Doctor match wits with an opponent that wasn't the Master for once. I am sooooo burnt out on the Master.

The bi-regeneration would have bothered me in the past, but since "the Timeless Child" retconned everything we knew about the Doctor, it's no biggie. At least there's the possibility of more David Tennant specials in the future.

[ChrisIII]

So with Mel showing up with Ncuti next season presumably we'll get some update on how 14 and Donna are doing, as she seems to have also kind of settled down with them along with helping UNIT out.

[Mister Mets]

The critic Darren Mooney had interesting points on why the Toymaker makes sense for this story.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/R8dg9Xd-2q..._QgQ4Dku=s1600

“And the rules, they are very, very importanten, these rules, don't you think?”

It’s fascinating the Toymaker is introduced as a figure of order, one governed by rules, imposing those rules and structures on the universe and the Doctor.

He’s sort of an embodiment of continuity.

After all, the Toymaker traps his victims in games governed by rules. Rules are ultimately just boundaries. They make things smaller and more confined.

The episode heavy implies that the Toymaker tries to impose order on the Doctor’s history and continuity.

Puppets and strings are a major recurring visual motif, particularly the cutting of strings.

To a certain extent, this is the central continuity function of “The Giggle.”

It’s cutting the strings tying “Doctor Who”, so it can move forward, unburdened.

Indeed, it’s notable that even Davies seems ambiguous about the continuity implications of the resolution of “The Giggle” - he talks about his “headcanon”, not “canon.”

Suddenly, so much more is possible than originally seemed. Nothing is certain. Anything can happen.

Davies confirms in commentary that the Toymaker was a soft retcon.

https://twitter.com/BadWolfArchives/...08518396117304

I do like the idea of the Toymaker as the Timeless Child, although I don't see Davies being explicit about that kind of retcon.

So with Mel showing up with Ncuti next season presumably we'll get some update on how 14 and Donna are doing, as she seems to have also kind of settled down with them along with helping UNIT out.

I liked her job interview.

[adamishere1]

Managed to finally watch yesterday's episode and it was wonderfully bizarre. Neil Patrick Harris was brilliant as the Toymaker and pretty much looked like he was have a lot of fun. I loved the references to former companions and the blink and miss it where we saw the 1st Doctor.

I'd heard a rumor and read something about what happened when the regeneration occurred, but wasn't totally prepared for it to actually be true. Almost feels like when they said to David, we want you to come back for 3 episodes for the 60th anniversary', that he basically said 'I don't want to go' and they said okay, we'll come up with a way to keep you around so we can trot you out for a spin off or ratings boost. Not that i'm complaining I like David as the Doctor and he certainly seems to enjoy it. One question I was watching with subtitles and it started to refer to him as the 10th Doctor after Gatwa arrived (mistake?) But I like the idea he's got time to recover from his years of trauma, maybe we'll get a spin off

But onto the newbie - I like him, he seems to have a good energy and likeable feeling too him, but will have to see more of him and only have 2 weeks before we get his first full solo outing. And yep he' wearing his underwear (my wife thought it was hilarious). I am hoping as a nod to continuity when the Christmas episode starts he is still dressed as he was at the end of this episode.

Also nice to see a classic companion and that she'll reappear during the next season. All in all I give a solid 9 out of 10.

[ChrisIII]

A classic companion it seems that the classic series really didn't know what to do with it seems (apart from making her get along better with the Doctor than Peri), and was sort of seen as stunt casting at the time. Plus she never gets an introductory story, although I suppose maybe the intention might've been for one down the line but then Colin got fired and that got left to the novels and audios.


Here of course we see her computer talents finally but also Langford even gets a bit of her musical talent (apart from of course, the old scream).

Although of course Bonnie has played Mel again several times in the Big Finish audios alongside Baker and McCoy (although I think I've only heard the Juggernaughts and it was some time ago) and also I guess she's done some with Ruth Madeley as well but as a different character.

Wonder if you could actually time travel told yourself or another fan during the Wilderness years the Doctor would split into two and one would retire with Mel what they'd think....

[ChrisIII]

Overnights were the lowest for the specials but like with WBY it's a small dip and probably will be boosted by the Disney+, BBC player etc.