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  1. #5626
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    So looking at the other trailers again it looks like in this next one the Doctor is somehow transported to Paris 1943....or perhaps an alternate Paris?
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  2. #5627
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    The spy plot was a little dull but I liked the new aliens and the Master

  3. #5628
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Kind of wondering if he'll escape or "die". Even if the latter happens, they'll write a way out of it....Simm and Missy of course had their own fake outs, as did Ainley (I think Delgado mostly escaped all the time). Unless he regenerates (Be kind of funny if he changed into Missy confirming the theory that he's an out of order).
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  4. #5629

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    I enjoyed the episode but the Doctor v Master overtook the Barton plot.

    The end of the episode was something else. We just got Gallifrey back.....
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 01-06-2020 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Clarity

  5. #5630
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Looks like another game changer. Also, the new revelations kind of fit with what we already know-even going back to the classic series, it's been clear the Time Lords have been kind of keeping a lot of secrets and have been corrupt.

    And of course remember this, one of the Sixth Doctor's best moments.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2INBe_qZFo
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  6. #5631
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    I haven’t seen part two yet, but have read some reviews. I have to say, I’m not a fan of the circular plotting. Russel Davies destroyed Gallifrey, to make the Doctor alone in the universe; then Steven Moffat brought it back, and now Chris Chibnall destroys it again. When exactly did the master do this? Obviously after the time lords gifted the doctor with a new cycle of regenerations, but who/ why did they do this? The doctor and his/ her history has always been hard to understand, and I sense I’ll be confused by the end of the season.
    Last edited by protege; 01-06-2020 at 07:51 AM.

  7. #5632
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Presumably after "Hell Bent" which was the last time the Doctor showed up. It's still a bit unclear "when" O-Master takes place in his personal timeline.


    The Master said it's because of some dark secret he discovered, The Timeless Child which was mentioned last season in Ghost Monument, and presumabely it involves Gallifrey's "Founding fathers" Rassilon and Omega. Rassilon of course was brought back during the Time War and dealt with the Doctor in End of Time and Hell Bent before being exiled; it's possible he somehow let the Master in on this secret. Omega also survived and showed up a few times in the classic series, however outside of the Who EU and some mentions of his legacy/technology he hasn't shown up since Arc of Infinity in the 80s.
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  8. #5633
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I was keen when Jodie Whittaker was announced as the new Doctor - she'd shown her formidable acting chops in shows such as Broadchurch and she obviously knows her trade.
    But this incarnation of the Doctor really isn't doing it for me at all and I think it's the writing and directing to blame.

    Part 2 of Spyfall, for example, there were a lot of camera shots which were simply bad. When Barton is there monologuing to what looked like a university lecture hall, there was a close up of his face with five lights behind his head. More lens flare than a modern Trek movie and it looked clownish. When the Master's message was being played in the TARDIS, the Doctor draping herself on the steps looked very forced and was a poor directorial choice.
    The apparent destruction of Gallifrey, yet again, comes across as lazy writing. The Time Lords have just been brought back and effectively not been touched on at all from a narrative standpoint - their new place in the Universe post Time War not explored much at all. And now gone again.

    I think what does bug me the most is that this incarnation seems to be repeating some of the worst tropes/mistakes from the classic series.
    During the 5th Doctor's run there were simply too many companions at the one time. Three means that there simply isn't enough for each of them to do (this comes up a LOT in the DVD commentaries) and this was, once again, evident in Spyfall. The three companions moved around as a collective group, not individuals as such. What makes this effort worse is, unlike a lot of classic series companions, none of these three seem to possess any notable special skills or qualities that can be used to drive scenes/narratives - there's no scientifically trained Nyssa or underhanded Turlough. Honestly, it's a struggle to remember their names at times simply because they are written as 'the companions' and not as actual characters.

    Keeping with the comparisons to the 5th Doctor, this current incarnation shares another trait. That of not being in control. The 5th Doctor generally was very reactive and didn't demonstrate the ability to take a situation and control it like most other incarnations did. This Doctor does the same but to an even greater degree - this one's tendency to talk to herself incessantly does little but indicate they don't seem to know what they're doing and clearly has little idea about what is actually happening. The self questioning fulfils the purpose the companions usually fill - asking the questions that the Doctor answers on behalf of the audience. Now the Doctor is doing the questioning which makes the over abundance of companions even worse.

    The writing, in general, really hasn't been great. Every tenure has it's great stories and terrible tales. For every Blink there's a Fear Her. For every Heaven Sent there's a Forest of the Night.
    But was there even one memorable story from last season? Has anything stood out, in a positive way, as a memorable Who tale? Damned if I can think of anything.
    And Spyfall didn't help, especially with the wasted use of Stephen Fry, the writing out of UNIT, the terrible visual gags with laser shoes and a plot that needed serious pacing work.
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  9. #5634
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Now that I’m watching this....
    The resolution of the cliffhanger was funny, if not a little convenient; the fact that the doctor trusted Ryan over graham I guess is a nice choice.
    I did like the conversation ‘the fam’ had, about learning who the doctor is; I sure hope we see that soon. Okay, I saw the end, but I hope we’ll get a more detailed explanation.
    How did the doctor know what the code was to attract the master? I thought only the master could hear that. And I thought that master might’ve lost that particular signal.
    I guess Barton’s mother never approved of his interest in technology, which is why he decided to kill her. Not a great motive for becoming a guy who wants to take over the world, I’ll admit.
    The sonic screwdriver. Is a recorder. Now?
    Last edited by protege; 01-06-2020 at 02:58 PM.

  10. #5635
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The Doctor heard the drums when he mind-melded with the Master in "End of Time" ("What's inside your head?").

    Although the drums weren't mentioned in Missy and the Master's appearances (apart from a few soundtrack things) in Moffat's era they were never really explained as having gone away.
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  11. #5636
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Now that I’m watching this....
    The resolution of the cliffhanger was funny, if not a little convenient; the fact that the doctor trusted Ryan over graham I guess is a nice choice.
    I did like the conversation ‘the fam’ had, about learning who the doctor is; I sure hope we see that soon. Okay, I saw the end, but I hope we’ll get a more detailed explanation.
    How did the doctor know what the code was to attract the master? I thought only the master could hear that. And I thought that master might’ve lost that particular signal.
    I guess Barton’s mother never approved of his interest in technology, which is why he decided to kill her. Not a great motive for becoming a guy who wants to take over the world, I’ll admit.
    The sonic screwdriver. Is a recorder. Now?
    The sonic screwdriver could always whip up a new function whenever needed. It's why Davies and Moffet were big on having characters describe it as a magic wand.

    With that said, we've seen it program satellites across the planet, reattach wire fences, detonate mines, and function as a medical scanner. Recording seems like among the least of its capabilities -- we had recorder watches 30 years ago IRL.

    At least audio recorders depend on sonic waves, staying true to the name sonic screwdriver.

    ---

    Anyway, back to the episode, my meta-bet is that Chibnall destroyed Gallifrey to recreate a new look for it (and rescue the Time Lords in the process). The city in a snow globe look has been with us for a decade now, starting with RTD and something faithfully carried over by Moffet.

    But yeah, as long as the basic designs of the TARDIS and the Daleks remain mostly the same, anything can be overhauled in this show, including Gallifrey and the Doctor themselves.

    I will say that I'm tired of Gallifrey being in such dire straits yet again -- RTD destroying it and Moffet trying to find it again -- but at the very least, there are two things that still keep my interest: 1. that the Master is at the start of the mystery, not the end of it (a reversal of most of his modern era stories), and 2. that the destruction of Gallifrey is likewise just the beginning of a bigger challenge. The elevation of stakes doesn't feel as cartoony as before, maybe because it's relegated to a single (though obscenely powerful) planet.

    I'm also relieved that it turned out the villains weren't about multiple Earths, just multiple time periods. Doctor Who rarely ventured into the realm of alternate universes (yes yes, the Third and Tenth Doctors on-screen have something to say about that, as do assorted secondary canon adventures), but given Star Trek, the Avengers, the X-Men, and other franchises lately, bringing up and then shooting down the possibility of alternate universes is kind of refreshing.

    There's also something about Whittaker that's starting to catch on to me. Yes, every Doctor has their own scenes of them thinking outloud with a monologue, just of them speaking uninterrupted for several minutes as they come to the solution. But Whittaker's facial expressions as she starts to connect the dots showed to me the acting wasn't in reciting the lines, but in how much the face communicates the satisfaction of problem solving. Matt Smith was big on using his fingers show the same effect, and Tennant would gradually ramp up his energy from confusion to enthusiasm. It's a pleasure to see each Doctor's own unique style to this classic approach, and I'm just now noticing 13's own method.

    I was more interested in the Doctor teaming up with the historical figures than with the ongoing spy thread, but my favorite part of the episode was in explaining the convergence:

    "How did you know how to help us on the plane?"
    Doctor: "OH CRAP! I FORGOT TO DO THAT!"

    *cue the quirky montage*
    Last edited by Cyke; 01-07-2020 at 02:46 AM.

  12. #5637
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    My main problem with the new Master is that it feels a bit like a Simm Redux-kind of in the same way Ainley was sort of playing Delgado, just somewhat crazier.

    Interesting that the TCE is back too after the laser screwdriver and Missy's devices. Funny thing is, Delgado only used it once in his debut; Ainley probably used it the most once the Master returned as a recurring threat during the JNT era.
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  13. #5638
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    My main problem with the new Master is that it feels a bit like a Simm Redux-kind of in the same way Ainley was sort of playing Delgado, just somewhat crazier.

    Interesting that the TCE is back too after the laser screwdriver and Missy's devices. Funny thing is, Delgado only used it once in his debut; Ainley probably used it the most once the Master returned as a recurring threat during the JNT era.
    I think I miss the regality of the Delgado and ainley masters; I never really got into John simm as the crazy version- sociopaths never really interest me, and the new master just feels like more of the same.this‘ ‘anybody can be the master’ vibe doesn’t really work for me.

  14. #5639
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I agree regarding the Master.
    He should be the Doctor's opposite - wherein the Doctor is all about embracing life and loving what it offers (demonstrating this through emotion), the Master should be far more reserved and closed off.
    Delgado's Master had style, his own code of behaviour, and remained thoroughly evil. He was a magnificent bastard, in that while he was evil you couldn't help but admire the way he went about it.

    We really haven't had that at all since Delgado and that's a huge shame. The low point, obviously, would have been Simm's jumpy jumpy lightning hands travesty.
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  15. #5640
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Barton did kind of remind me of how Delgado's Master usually was working with some businessman as his hench-villain/co-conspirator, starting with Farrel (Played by the guy who would later be the first Davros) in his first story, and later continuing with Trenchard and others. And of course there's the alliance with an alien race but that's something we've seen with every Master.


    It's not something we see as much later on, although Goth, Kassia, Naismith and Lucy kind of fit the bill
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