Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Jim Kelly]

I'm cracking myself up thinking of Josh Hartnett as the Doctor. Now I have to watch PENNY DREADFUL.

[Kyer]

River Song is back for the Christmas special.

Eh. I'd rather see Donna...or better yet, Jack; but it will be interesting to see how Twelve reacts to her now that he's more prickly.

[Ragdoll]

If someone told Moffat there was a demand for more River Song episodes, they lied. But she's his baby who he refuses to let go. RTD was way better at knowing who to bring back, and when.

[Jim Kelly]

I want to see Alex Kingaton in scenes with Peter Capaldi. We haven't seen that before. That's new.

It strikes me that on DOCTOR WHO, different combinations of actors have changed the dynamic of the show. Three with Sarah Jane wasn't too happy, but Four with Sarah Jane had a good thing going. Peri worked well with Five but not Six. Even Adric was nearly tolerable with Four, but only became insufferable with Five.

One of the unfortunate things with the transition from Ten to Eleven was that almost none of the characters from the Ten run carried on over to Eleven--except for River. She was about the only thing connecting those two incarnations of the Doctor--until Day of the Doctor.

I think, more visitations from characters past could benefit Twelve.

[Vworp Vworp]

If someone told Moffat there was a demand for more River Song episodes, they lied.

Except they didn't, did they? She's an extremely popular character who lots of people wanted to see return.

I get you're not a fan. And that's fair enough. But sometimes you just have to accept that you're in the minority, even if it baffles you why other people might actually like the character. I feel the same way about Donna. To this day, I honest have no clue what anyone sees in her. But the bottom line is, she's enormously popular, and I can't pretend she ain't.

[Ragdoll]

I don't think I'm the minority, I'd say she is the most polarizing character in the show. Many people love her, but no other Who character seems to get as much hate from fans, myself included. When they announced she was doing Big Finish Who with older Doctors, I thought she might finally get good, and they could tell her story the way it was meant to: backwards. I wonder if Capaldi will get along with her or dislike her. I kind of assumed she had never met him, and all her talk of "spoilers" ended with Matt Smith's Doctor. We'll see.

Also, the explanation for her origins was poorly written. Amy Pond looses her child and misses out on raising her, but never has an emotional response about it because she knows an adult version of her kid is still alive, so it must end all good. Parents don;t get over the loss of a child just because of the knowledge the child lives, they want to actually know that child. Moffat is just bad at writing family situations, another one of RTDs strong suits, who gave all the companions complex and emotional family lives.

[Vworp Vworp]

I don't think I'm the minority, I'd say she is the most polarizing character in the show. Many people love her, but no other Who character seems to get as much hate from fans, myself included.

Nope. Maybe you notice the hate more, cos it's from people that share your opinion. But that doesn't make it the general opinion. No more than it is from those who dislike Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy and Clara, all of whom have a vocal minority of critics. A minority I'm a vocal part of myself, when it comes to Donna. But I acknowledge it is a minority.

I do agree that Amy's response to losing her daughter (and subsequently discovering that she'd grown up as her best friend) should have been dealt with a little more on-screen, but I don't think that has any relevance in terms of River as a character in her own right. As for RTD's strength at writing families, I'm not sure I'd call any of them 'complex'. Yes, he acknowledged the impact travelling the Doctor could have on families, but ultimately it was all pretty generic stuff as far as Rose, Martha and Donna's families were concerned.

[Ragdoll]

I just googled "is river song popular?" and the first result was a whole article about how polarizing she is lol
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...ng-divide-fans
Also, I wasn't saying my opinion was the majority, either. Just that it is an even balance of people who like or dislike her.
And liking Donna is a minority opinion? Are people insane? I liked her to the point where I wanted her actress to take Tennant's role as Doctor when he retired, Doctor Donna was amazing for the short time we had her.

[Kyer]

I just googled "is river song popular?" and the first result was a whole article about how polarizing she is lol
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...ng-divide-fans
Also, I wasn't saying my opinion was the majority, either. Just that it is an even balance of people who like or dislike her.
And liking Donna is a minority opinion? Are people insane? I liked her to the point where I wanted her actress to take Tennant's role as Doctor when he retired, Doctor Donna was amazing for the short time we had her.

I really liked Donna as she grew with the Doctor. Would have gone for a spin-off show with her or Doctor's Daughter Jenny, but personally have issues with characters who continuously upstage the Doctor in his own show. The show is Doctor Who...not Doctor Who's Charismatic Companion. Which while I'm all for a special with Jack Harkness am kind of glad he left for Torchwood: too much competition.

If you go by fanfic, then Rose is the definite winner when it comes to favorite Ten companions. Myself, I can barely stand her and don't see the appeal. Just have to shrug and locate stuff I do like. However, am having a hard time shrugging off Missy. Maybe it's because I loved Delgado's Master so much, but Missy just makes my teeth grind.

[Ragdoll]

Maybe it's because I loved Delgado's Master so much, but Missy just makes my teeth grind.

I loved Delgado and Simm, and while Missy is a radical departure from that, I've always thought there was some sexual tension between the two, and Missy came along and completely confirmed my theory. I always viewed them similarly to Batman and the Joker. Opposite sides of the same coin, and with a love/hate relationship. And if the Joker turned into a girl overnight, we all know she would kiss Batman first chance she got.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yeah on the main CBR post about River Song its a 50/50 split of people not happy and those happy. The character isn't a universally accepted character in Who judging from reactions. She's not a Sarah Jane or Brigadier , where I think the fans overall see them as characters they love .

Personally I think the character has outlived its usefulness. She was supposed to be this cool character and mysterious and somehow became the Doctor's wife. But once everything was fully explained it was a "yawn" deal. She had little chemistry with Tennent and none whatsoever with Matt Smith. It was painful to see this really young Doctor and this older woman claiming how they were this loving couple...supposedly. At least she'll be closer in age to Capaldi to make it work.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm cracking myself up thinking of Josh Hartnett as the Doctor. Now I have to watch PENNY DREADFUL.

Watched PENNY DREADFUL and am convinced the "Ethan Chandler" with a pocket watch is really the Doctor. There's also a former companion and a former Rassilon there--and who knows what Victorian London connections there might be.

[Vworp Vworp]

The character isn't a universally accepted character in Who judging from reactions. She's not a Sarah Jane or Brigadier...

I don't like Sarah Jane.

It's odd really, cos in most things I'm on board with what could probably be considered 'general opinion' when it comes to Doctor Who Fandom. Sure, there's a few deviations here and there, like Sixie is my favourite classic Doc and I thoroughly enjoyed The Rings of Akhaten. But it's when it comes down to companions that I find my opinion at the polar end of the majority. Because there are only two companions in all of who that I dislike enough to rarely, if ever, watch any of their stories. And yet, they're usually considered to be the two most popular. Sarah Jane and Donna.

Sarah bugs me cos she's mostly so utterly useless. Particularly as she was often touted as representing the burgeoning 'women's lib' movement of the era, and yet she's significantly less competent and self-assured than her many of her predecessors. Zoe and Jo in particular were both considerably more capable, confident and basically useful than Sarah Jane ever was. Sarah's main skill seemed to talking in a annoying breathy voice whenever she was panicking (which was a lot) and screaming. Seriously, the woman fell down a 'cliff' with a gradient of about 2% on Gallifrey!

And Donna. Ugh, Donna. Here's the thing. I have no problem with Catherine Tate as an actress. And I honestly believe she really could have played a fantastic older, 'adult' companion for the Doctor. Unfortunately, that never happened. The problem was that Donna was initially only ever intended as a one-off character (I think a character called Penny was originally mooted as an older companion for the Doc before Tate became available again). As such, Donna in The Runaway Bride is pretty much a very, broad comedic character, playing to Tate's strengths, yes, but not being especially believable as a real person. And as a one-shot deal, it worked.

But then they brought her back. And as a longer term character, RTD obviously had to try to develop her into something more grounded, but without changing her personality so completely that it wouldn't be recognisable. And so what we got was this gestalt Donna, one part comedy gurning irritant and one part "Look, she's all serious and Catherine's doing proper acting now." As a result, she rarely felt in any way real, instead more caricature than character.

There are moments where Donna does feel like a person. Like when she's talking to the Doctor about his children in The Doctor's Daughter, for example. But such moments are so very few and far between, they only serve a teaser for what might have been.

[Ragdoll]

I don't like Sarah Jane.

I'm convinced people don;t actually like Sarah Jane and just think they do, because she had such good episodes and the best Doctor to work with. Because her personality did not add nearly as much as classic companions like Jo Grant or Ace. She just got lucky and fell into the most famous run of episodes the show has ever made, so older fans love her on nostalgia alone. Similar to why new fans love Rose now, she was their first exposure to the show, and the character who they viewed the show through the eyes of for the first time.

Also, she was the sexiest companion of the classic series. That probably had a lot to do with it. That's showbiz for ya.

[ChrisIII]

Funny thing about Sarah, in Time Warrior she kind of started as the tough feminist, but as the Tom Baker era started she sort of fell back into the more typical companion role, although well played and with good chemistry with Baker. The new series and her own also kind of gave her an interesting more mature single mom/female semi-Doctor thing dynamic kind of going on.

As for River, I kind of liked her but I think her arc sort of drained too heavily on season 6 at times. In most of the other seasons, the 'arc' is sort of in the background and kind of 'builds' throughout the season, but season 6 sort of went overboard with all the River/Silence/Doctor's "death" focused episodes, although there were still some standouts (Doctor's wife, Girl Who Waited, God Complex etc). I'd like to see if they have her interact with Missy in some form.

Also I wonder if the new Doctor's slightly 'rock star' looks this season-complete with guitar-will sort of become Capaldi's "Fez".


As for Ace compared to Sarah, I think Ace was really one of the first companions with a more fleshed out backstory and tough persona. It's too bad her arc was sort of abandoned in the TV series, apart from a weird footnote in Sarah Jane Adventures.