Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Jim Kelly]

The death in this episode is an example of what I was talking about before. Innocent random character killed off to make the story seem "important."

Oh come on...

In a Tom Baker story, odds are none of those kids would have made it out alive. The modetn series is positively restrained when it comes to killing off bystander characters and guest stars compared to the classic one.

Yes, that's right. But the operative phrase is "what I was talking about before." What I said before, a few pages back, applies to all of DOCTOR WHO, not just the current series. It's something that started to bug me during the Third Doctor and really got to me in the Fourth Doctor and continuies to be an irritant and bugs me a lot with the Seventh Doctor. But sometimes the death of one character can take me out of a story just as much as the death of thousands. It gets an "Oh Come On" from me as I'm watching the story--just as my post seemed to get your hackles up.

[Carabas]

Yes, that's right. But the operative phrase is "what I was talking about before." What I said before, a few pages back, applies to all of DOCTOR WHO, not just the current series. It's something that started to bug me during the Third Doctor and really got to me in the Fourth Doctor and continuies to be an irritant and bugs me a lot with the Seventh Doctor. But sometimes the death of one character can take me out of a story just as much as the death of thousands. It gets an "Oh Come On" from me as I'm watching the story--just as my post seemed to get your hackles up.

Mea culpa.

But yeah, Who has always been hipdeep in the horror genre. Often more so than science fiction.

[Carabas]

What do you think of Tennant's performance in that show?

I have found him to be massively better in anything I have seen him than in Who, where he was tragically miscast IMO.

[The Whovian]

spoilers:

Clara and Me

end of spoilers might be back for the Christmas Special









http://screenrant.com/doctor-who-cla...stmas-special/

[Cyke]

spoilers:

It's not that the Doctor didn't care, it's like he said, he was more concerned about the rest of the children and people on the ice who were still alive and in danger of dying at any moment. He didn't want to waste a single second. The Doctor mourns, but only after he's saved everyone he can. As far as not remembering the people he killed. I assure you, he knows who he has killed and why. Bill just didn't give him a chance to explain. She kept interrupting him. She has no right to judge him until she's been in his shoes and has to make tough decisions.

end of spoilers

I feel like you're approaching this from the perspective of knowing the Doctor already, and multiple incarnations at that, so we're much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Do the exact same scene with the exact same outcome in any other TV show, and odds are that that character will be seen as a monster, not as a pragmatist. Breaking Bad springs to mind -- much of Walt's motivation is out of big picture stuff, the means to an end. But to everyone else around him, even to his family (the ones he set out to help in the first place), he's not just a monster but almost incomprehensibly cold, no matter how he tries to explain it to others. Heck, on a much smaller and harmless scale, a good chunk of George Costanza's mishaps in Seinfeld follows the same beats.

With that said, I really don't blame Bill at all for her hesitance. After all, she did give the Doctor a chance, paralleled with just as how she made the right decision for humanity and history. We're still going to root for the Doctor because he's proven himself over and over again to us the viewer, but Bill has only known him for a much smaller amount of time.

[The Whovian]

I feel like you're approaching this from the perspective of knowing the Doctor already, and multiple incarnations at that, so we're much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Do the exact same scene with the exact same outcome in any other TV show, and odds are that that character will be seen as a monster, not as a pragmatist. Breaking Bad springs to mind -- much of Walt's motivation is out of big picture stuff, the means to an end. But to everyone else around him, even to his family (the ones he set out to help in the first place), he's not just a monster but almost incomprehensibly cold, no matter how he tries to explain it to others. Heck, on a much smaller and harmless scale, a good chunk of George Costanza's mishaps in Seinfeld follows the same beats.

With that said, I really don't blame Bill at all for her hesitance. After all, she did give the Doctor a chance, paralleled with just as how she made the right decision for humanity and history. We're still going to root for the Doctor because he's proven himself over and over again to us the viewer, but Bill has only known him for a much smaller amount of time.

Well, using Walt from BB is a bad analogy. Totally different. But yeah, I can see how someone who hasn't known him very long could see him in this light. But that's why you don't jump to judge so quickly. And again, she wouldn't give him time to explain. She kept interrupting him.

[Cyke]

Well, using Walt from BB is a bad analogy. Totally different. But yeah, I can see how someone who hasn't known him very long could see him in this light. But that's why you don't jump to judge so quickly. And again, she wouldn't give him time to explain. She kept interrupting him.

You're describing something of her as a fault. Don't you think she learned that lesson at the end of the episode? Characters should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. A good companion does that, and so does the Doctor.

But if Breaking Bad doesn't work for you, countless shows have done it, too. Administrators and chief residents in ER, Scrubs, and other medical shows tend to fall into this trope -- the core cast see them as bad guys for making big picture decisions, until the end of the episode when they see the administrators as human and seeing their rationale. Ultimately their goals align, even if one character disagrees or another character has the authority based on experience (like the Doctor) to make that judgment call. Disagreement isn't a bad thing if it serves the story, and it gives us a better idea of Bill's characteristics -- this is the same episode where the Doctor rightfully pointed out that she has a temper, and that plays into it. Since Bill just started, we need to know how she works to get a better idea of how she'd function both as a character and as a companion proper.

[The Whovian]

You're describing something of her as a fault. Don't you think she learned that lesson at the end of the episode? Characters should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. A good companion does that, and so does the Doctor.

But if Breaking Bad doesn't work for you, countless shows have done it, too. Administrators and chief residents in ER, Scrubs, and other medical shows tend to fall into this trope -- the core cast see them as bad guys for making big picture decisions, until the end of the episode when they see the administrators as human and seeing their rationale. Ultimately their goals align, even if one character disagrees or another character has the authority based on experience (like the Doctor) to make that judgment call. Disagreement isn't a bad thing if it serves the story, and it gives us a better idea of Bill's characteristics -- this is the same episode where the Doctor rightfully pointed out that she has a temper, and that plays into it. Since Bill just started, we need to know how she works to get a better idea of how she'd function both as a character and as a companion proper.

Well, hopefully as the season goes on, she'll she the Doctor in a different light.

[Jim Kelly]

I was lucky/unlucky enough to miss about every Colin Baker episode after The Two Doctors due to the local station taking it off the air about that time. Yeah, some of the situations got hairy for me but never once was I forced to do more than just look away. With the sudden influx of actual parasites in New Who I have to actually leave the room or switch channels altogether. So it was with the spiders and the face huggers. (There's a reason I hate the Alien movie ads.)

I'm more a fan of Alfred Hithcock's style....ideas on fear/anticipation versus buckets of fake gore.

Best to avoid this week's episode--or leave the room for most of it. Even though I thought the effects were cheap--it still creeped me out. This Doctor seems to attract a lot of horrors.

[The Whovian]

So we're 4 episodes into this season and it's been underwhelming to say the least. This week's episode was really weak, IMO.

spoilers:

The Doctor hardly did anything except until the very end. It mostly focused on Bill and her flat mates. Everything that happened was very predictable. I'm just not feeling the same excitement for this season as I usually do. I continue to hope for the best and maybe the next episode will be better.

end of spoilers

[Jim Kelly]

I'm holding out hope that there will be some big idea that holds all these stories together. Something that makes them seem much greater in hindsight. It's not always easy to judge a season when you're in the middle of it. But it does seem kinda weak at this point in time.

However, I recently realized that I think of the whole of the Russell T. Davies DOCTOR WHO as one big thing, Nine and Ten together. And that's why it seems so big to me--where if you just looked at individual seasons, it might not seem significant. Maybe the same can be said for the Steven Moffat DOCTOR WHO, Eleven and Twelve together.

[Kyer]

Best to avoid this week's episode--or leave the room for most of it. Even though I thought the effects were cheap--it still creeped me out. This Doctor seems to attract a lot of horrors.

Too late reading that. (We seriously need a Quaking-Behind-The-Couch emoticon. 'eek' does not do justice here.)

What made it worse is that I missed a lot of the first half of the show so the first scene my eyes laid on was....that scene. Then to make matters worse Mom needed help and then I came back in to...omg shades of the Star Trek Ceti Eeels. It took me over two additional hours to fall asleep.

I'm going to go stand with the Moffat haters now. Not that I loved Ten's human Scorpion either, but Spiders, Face Huggers, and Lice, oh my! Stupid childhood infatuations that last a lifetime.... why can't I let this show go?

I'm holding out hope that there will be some big idea that holds all these stories together. Something that makes them seem much greater in hindsight. It's not always easy to judge a season when you're in the middle of it. But it does seem kinda weak at this point in time.

However, I recently realized that I think of the whole of the Russell T. Davies DOCTOR WHO as one big thing, Nine and Ten together. And that's why it seems so big to me--where if you just looked at individual seasons, it might not seem significant. Maybe the same can be said for the Steven Moffat DOCTOR WHO, Eleven and Twelve together.

I will forever dislike Billie for leaving and thus disrupting the Bad Wolf storyline. As I understand it was supposed to go on for another year for the big reveal.

[ChrisIII]

Regarding returning companions in the regenerations, it's sort of tradition at this point I think. The Fourth, Fifth, and Eleventh Doctors hallucinated their companions before regenerating, and the Tenth actually visited them (including those from before his current incarnation, according to SJA's "Death of the Doctor").

[Kirby101]

So what happened at the very end? My DVR stopped just as the Dr. was talking to whoever is in the vault.

[Carabas]

So what happened at the very end? My DVR stopped just as the Dr. was talking to whoever is in the vault.

The conversation seemed friendly. the Vault Dweller spoke in piano, struck me as very "Missy" in style. The Doctor said they were both prisoners andasked if the Dweller wanted dinner. He had gotten takeout.
The Doctor tried to convince the Dweller by saying he had a new story about a haunted house. The Dweller's music went all upbeat when the Doctor mentioned it had lots of youg people being eaten.

And then the Doctor opened the Vault and went inside.