Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Somecrazyaussie]

We've got stories of Ace on Gallifrey in Big Finish's Gallifrey range. In her first appearance, Intervention Earth, she she can't even remember how she came to get there anymore. She's in Intervention Earth (Omega is the Big Bad), Enemy Lines (political intrigue while strange things even by Gallifrey's standards are happening) and Time War.

I loved the earlier series of Gallifrey. Although, I must admit, I avoid anything to do with the Time War. I keep abreast of story developments, though. The reason why is because the more that is revealed about the Time War, the less mysterious it becomes. In my head, The Time War featured high concept sci-fi ideas. Where time was no linear and it was forever shifting due to battles being waged across the past, present and future. Where combatants existed one second, only to be wiped away in the next due to opposing forces going back in time etc. So far, it has just been depicted as generic space battles.

[jbmasta]

I loved the earlier series of Gallifrey. Although, I must admit, I avoid anything to do with the Time War. I keep abreast of story developments, though. The reason why is because the more that is revealed about the Time War, the less mysterious it becomes. In my head, The Time War featured high concept sci-fi ideas. Where time was no linear and it was forever shifting due to battles being waged across the past, present and future. Where combatants existed one second, only to be wiped away in the next due to opposing forces going back in time etc. So far, it has just been depicted as generic space battles.

The Eighth Doctor novels had the first major arc be about a War from the Doctor's relative future. One of the parties involved was Faction Paradox, a group who worshipped paradox and part of initiation was killing your past self. Naturally their highest figure was Grandfather Paradox. There's a chapter in the final Eighth Doctor novel flashing back to the last book with the War, with strategies making the most of the time/space conflict.

[Somecrazyaussie]

The Eighth Doctor novels had the first major arc be about a War from the Doctor's relative future. One of the parties involved was Faction Paradox, a group who worshipped paradox and part of initiation was killing your past self. Naturally their highest figure was Grandfather Paradox. There's a chapter in the final Eighth Doctor novel flashing back to the last book with the War, with strategies making the most of the time/space conflict.

Faction Paradox was a great concept. Loved the first few novels focused around that story arc (Although it slightly goes off the rails somewhere between Interference 2 and Ancestor Cell.) But the Time War should be something that transcends even that. We have the two most powerful races in The Daleks and The Time Lords. Both with advanced forms of time travel at their disposal. The Daleks have the cunning to use it in unconventional ways. There is a reason Time Lords were weary of them. They are their worst fears personified. But most events so far have just be generic battles that are a dime-a-dozen in every other sci-fi franchise out there.

[jbmasta]

Faction Paradox was a great concept. Loved the first few novels focused around that story arc (Although it slightly goes off the rails somewhere between Interference 2 and Ancestor Cell.) But the Time War should be something that transcends even that. We have the two most powerful races in The Daleks and The Time Lords. Both with advanced forms of time travel at their disposal. The Daleks have the cunning to use it in unconventional ways. There is a reason Time Lords were weary of them. They are their worst fears personified. But most events so far have just be generic battles that are a dime-a-dozen in every other sci-fi franchise out there.

Lawrence Miles wrote for the War arc up to Interference Book 2: The Hour of the Geek (the story ran over two books), and didn't like how Peter Anghelides and Stephen Cole wrapped it up in The Ancestor Cell. The story of Faction Paradox continued in books with Mad Norwegian Press, Random Static and Obverse Books (who have also published books with Iris Wildthyme, another concept introduced in Doctor Who prose fiction) and audio with BBV and Magic Bullet Productions and even two issues with Image Comics (Miranda, a character introduced in the Eighth Doctor range as the Doctor's adopted daughter while he was stuck on Earth, also had a short lived comic series published under a vanity press).

[Enigma]

So, I've just discovered the Big Blue Box DW podcast - really good! For anybody who listens, is it worth going back and listening to past episodes or is it only really worthwhile at the time?

[ChrisIII]

Peter Miles has died. He played roles in a few stories, but is most memorably Nyder in Genesis of the Daleks. Like Davros himself, he was sort of a proto-Dalek in a few ways.

[KoriandrJean]

Off-topic here, but can anyone explain *why* Clara chose to travel with Ashildr at end? Especially since she had been responsible for her murder and the kidnapping and torture of the Doctor?

I mean, WTH, Moffat?

[ChrisIII]

Maybe because they're both effectively immortal? (although at some point Clara of course has to return to the street to "finish" her death).

[KoriandrJean]

Maybe because they're both effectively immortal? (although at some point Clara of course has to return to the street to "finish" her death).

Seriously?!!

For a death that didn't happen in the FIRST place due to the Doctor's trip back to back to Gallifrey, and then tricking the Time Lords into rescuing her from it ...

[The Whovian]

Seriously?!!

For a death that didn't happen in the FIRST place due to the Doctor's trip back to back to Gallifrey, and then tricking the Time Lords into rescuing her from it ...

Except she did die. Her death is a fixed point in time. She will die there at some point in the future. It's not a matter of "if", but "when". As far as why Clara would travel with Ashildr? That's easy. Clara loved time travelling and going on adventures. She's now effectively immortal and so is Ashildr. Plus, she already forgave Ashildr before she even died. And she told the Doctor not to hurt Ashildr or take revenge on Ashildr for her death.

[Carabas]

Off-topic here, but can anyone explain *why* Clara chose to travel with Ashildr at end? Especially since she had been responsible for her murder and the kidnapping and torture of the Doctor?

I mean, WTH, Moffat?

I am not sure how it is even a little bit off topic.

But Me didn't cause Clara's death. Clara did. Clara had been acting as if she were immortal all series long, and, well, she's not.

Seriously?!!

For a death that didn't happen in the FIRST place due to the Doctor's trip back to back to Gallifrey, and then tricking the Time Lords into rescuing her from it ...

Clara wasn't rescued and she's, strictly speaking, not even alive.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Lawrence Miles wrote for the War arc up to Interference Book 2: The Hour of the Geek (the story ran over two books), and didn't like how Peter Anghelides and Stephen Cole wrapped it up in The Ancestor Cell. The story of Faction Paradox continued in books with Mad Norwegian Press, Random Static and Obverse Books (who have also published books with Iris Wildthyme, another concept introduced in Doctor Who prose fiction) and audio with BBV and Magic Bullet Productions and even two issues with Image Comics (Miranda, a character introduced in the Eighth Doctor range as the Doctor's adopted daughter while he was stuck on Earth, also had a short lived comic series published under a vanity press).

Miles really should have been the guy to finish that arc off. When you think about it, he wrote the pivotal novels: Alien Bodies, and Interference 1 and 2. I know he was busy setting up the spin-off run for Faction Paradox. Miles gets labelled as the "angry man of the internet," but I can understand him being annoyed with how everything was wrapped up. That range was undergoing a shift in editorial at the time with Stephen Cole passing the post over to Justin Richards. So that probably just wanted to end it all as quickly as they could. Which is definitely the feeling I had while reading Ancestor Cell the first time.

Nevertheless, it lead to my favourite period of the EDA's in the Earth Bound arc. So I can't complain.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Seriously?!!

For a death that didn't happen in the FIRST place due to the Doctor's trip back to back to Gallifrey, and then tricking the Time Lords into rescuing her from it ...

Clara was removed from the timeline in between heartbeats. Because of the Chronolock, her death is a fixed point. It can't be altered or changed. Eventually, she has to return to Gallifrey to be reinserted at the point from which she was taken out. As a result, she isn't alive since she has no heartbeat. She knows she has to go back and the Time Lords will catch up with her eventually. She is just taking the "long way round."

[jbmasta]

Miles really should have been the guy to finish that arc off. When you think about it, he wrote the pivotal novels: Alien Bodies, and Interference 1 and 2. I know he was busy setting up the spin-off run for Faction Paradox. Miles gets labelled as the "angry man of the internet," but I can understand him being annoyed with how everything was wrapped up. That range was undergoing a shift in editorial at the time with Stephen Cole passing the post over to Justin Richards. So that probably just wanted to end it all as quickly as they could. Which is definitely the feeling I had while reading Ancestor Cell the first time.

Nevertheless, it lead to my favourite period of the EDA's in the Earth Bound arc. So I can't complain.

A few of the concepts in the Faction Paradox arc wound up in the New Series. A companion designed to be the ideal companion, an event from the Doctor's future coming back to haunt him, a wound in space-time linked to the Doctor that someone wants to manipulate etc.

The second half of the Eighth Doctor novels were definitely a clean slate, with the first book of that half, The Burning, contain no continuity elements at all outside of a phrase the Second Doctor would sometimes say ("When I say run..."), even if there are elements that are still in play like Fitz's identity issues spoilers:

He was separated from the Doctor in Interference and joined a community where people could be remade by the memories held of them, like a Chinese Whispers population. The original Fitz joins Faction Paradox as Father Kreiner, while the Doctor uses the technology and the TARDIS memory of Fitz to recreate him as he was when last in the TARDIS (since it's TARDIS memory it's more complete) once he's gone through his thread of the story.

end of spoilers

[Somecrazyaussie]

A few of the concepts in the Faction Paradox arc wound up in the New Series. A companion designed to be the ideal companion, an event from the Doctor's future coming back to haunt him, a wound in space-time linked to the Doctor that someone wants to manipulate etc.

The second half of the Eighth Doctor novels were definitely a clean slate, with the first book of that half, The Burning, contain no continuity elements at all outside of a phrase the Second Doctor would sometimes say ("When I say run..."), even if there are elements that are still in play like Fitz's identity issues spoilers:

He was separated from the Doctor in Interference and joined a community where people could be remade by the memories held of them, like a Chinese Whispers population. The original Fitz joins Faction Paradox as Father Kreiner, while the Doctor uses the technology and the TARDIS memory of Fitz to recreate him as he was when last in the TARDIS (since it's TARDIS memory it's more complete) once he's gone through his thread of the story.

end of spoilers

The use of EDA concepts in the New Series was the big catalyst that spurred on Miles tirade towards it. On the one hand, I don't blame him. On the other, he was kind of angry before hand anyway. He is a great writer, though. Shame he has been cut off from doing anything Who-wise for the better part of a decade.

I loved that run BECAUSE it wasn't tied down by continuity. Which offered a much needed breather. Then they did that arc featuring Sabbath.

I need more Fitz. I keep hoping that Big Finish do a series of Eighth Doctor audios with him. I really loved his bit in The Company Of Friends. I also want to see a series with the Fourth teamed with Adric.