Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[CosmiComic]

Stuff like Trump is bad! and Climate Change is a thing! And I'm not saying you can't do so, but Doctor Who used to be way better with that sort of thing. Watching an story like The Green Death which handled climate change in the 70's far better than anything in Orphan 55 is a little upsetting to me.

Old Who was nowhere near as good as New Who. And you know, I don't think the series was being preachy. Talking about something isn't automatically preachy, ok

[80sbaby]

Stuff like Trump is bad! and Climate Change is a thing! And I'm not saying you can't do so, but Doctor Who used to be way better with that sort of thing. Watching an story like The Green Death which handled climate change in the 70's far better than anything in Orphan 55 is a little upsetting to me.

I think the complaints about "politics" in Doctor Who is overblown. I recently binged both Season 11 and 12 a few weeks ago and out of 20 episodes, I'd say there's 4 (maybe 5) that deal with any heavy handed politics. That's not a lot, imo.

[Derek Metaltron]

Old Who was nowhere near as good as New Who. And you know, I don't think the series was being preachy. Talking about something isn't automatically preachy, ok

...ok, that's exceptionally subjective. I suspect you haven't seen enough of Classic Who to make that opinion. But to each their own.

I think the complaints about "politics" in Doctor Who is overblown. I recently binged both Season 11 and 12 a few weeks ago and out of 20 episodes, I'd say there's 4 (maybe 5) that deal with any heavy handed politics. That's not a lot, imo.

Five sounds about right. Maybe it's because those ones happen to be loud about things. I guess it's a sense of perspective and what someone is used to.

[Celgress]

Doctor Who's current issues stem mostly from having a terrible overseer who feels pushing agendas for the sake of agendas and courting controversy via continuity breaking, and also increasing the political and messaging in the show. Doctor Who has always been able to say things about politics and climate change, but now the current overseer elects to knock people over the head with it. The tragedy is that Jodie herself is a great Doctor... she's just sandbagged with a bad overseer. And for every quality episode (including Rosa which did a fantastic job of saying its message without being so preachy about it) there's a terrible one like Orphan 55 or an episode like Arachnids In The UK which is a decent script let down by a Trump clone which the show is using to say how bad Trump is. Yes BBC, we get it.

There's also smaller issues like the quality of writing from some guest episode writers and the lack of character development for the companions, but that's probably the biggest reason why Doctor Who has lost some fans. The fact that Jodie is leaving and yet Chris is staying on will not bring them back since they know the quality is unlikely to improve once she departs, whoever replaces her.

True, I grossly oversimplified the issues involved. What I was getting is how people on Twitter constantly & loudly praise every "woke" thing current Who does yet the viewership numbers and merch numbers continue to rapidly decline. Obviously, there is a serious disconnect between praise and support with that very vocal group.

[CosmiComic]

...ok, that's exceptionally subjective. I suspect you haven't seen enough of Classic Who to make that opinion. But to each their own.



Five sounds about right. Maybe it's because those ones happen to be loud about things. I guess it's a sense of perspective and what someone is used to.

I've seen plenty of old Who. I like some of it, but watched a basic plot stretched across several episodes all filmed at the same rock quarry doesn't always hold up

I think the complaints about "politics" in Doctor Who is overblown. I recently binged both Season 11 and 12 a few weeks ago and out of 20 episodes, I'd say there's 4 (maybe 5) that deal with any heavy handed politics. That's not a lot, imo.

Exactly, the outrage against "wokeness" always seems bigger to me. As I said, just talking about an issue isn't preaching

[Celgress]

....Exactly, the outrage against "wokeness" always seems bigger to me. As I said, just talking about an issue isn't preaching

Okay, when Dr. Who gets canceled which should be soon (I give it a year tops) we'll return to this point.

Edit - See, here is the thing I know many people from the UK and I also read many Dr. Who sites. Every one of them is pissed off about the "wokeness" and bad writing in current Who. Sure, my evidence is anecdotal but a clear pattern has emerged. Was Who in trouble before Jodie, hell yeah, but people wanted to give her a chance thus the very earlier ratings boost. The fans have been turned off by the current product including a massive retcon that smacks rightly or wrongly of "wokeness".

[80sbaby]

Okay, when Dr. Who gets canceled which should be soon (I give it a year tops) we'll return to this point.

And should it not be cancelled?

[Triniking1234]

I heard Chinballs retconned The Doctor to not be a Time Lord. Good grief.

Also, what do you define as "woke"?

And should it not be cancelled?

It shouldn't.

[Celgress]

And should it not be cancelled?

I think it can be saved but it needs a much better showrunner.

[Celgress]

I heard Chinballs retconned The Doctor to not be a Time Lord. Good grief....

Yeah, that's it. The Doctor is now basically Space Jesus the chosen one and source of everything....

[CosmiComic]

Okay, when Dr. Who gets canceled which should be soon (I give it a year tops) we'll return to this point.

Edit - See, here is the thing I know many people from the UK and I also read many Dr. Who sites. Every one of them is pissed off about the "wokeness" and bad writing in current Who. Sure, my evidence is anecdotal but a clear pattern has emerged. Was Who in trouble before Jodie, hell yeah, but people wanted to give her a chance thus the very earlier ratings boost. The fans have been turned off by the current product including a massive retcon that smacks rightly or wrongly of "wokeness".

No offense, but who exactly are you talking to? Your data is anecdotal, but all it proves is some people on line and in real life hate seeing messages in their sci fi shows. What a surprise!

[Celgress]

No offense, but who exactly are you talking to? Your data is anecdotal, but all it proves is some people on line and in real life hate seeing messages in their sci fi shows. What a surprise!

No one hates messages in their sci-fi what they do hate is the bluntness of it, how preachy it is, and how terribly destructive to the franchise the writing is (see my previous message about Space Jesus).

Oh, and when literally EVERY long-time Dr. Who site is grumbling about the current direction you might just have a problem.

[CosmiComic]

No one hates messages in their sci-fi what they do hate is the bluntness of it, how preachy it is, and how terribly destructive to the franchise the writing is (see my previous message about Space Jesus).

Oh, and when literally EVERY long-time Dr. Who site is grumbling about the current direction you might just have a problem.

Dr. Who fans think every next episode is destroying the franchise! It's been that way forerever.

And not everyone thinks it's preachy or destroying the franchise. Some of us aren't so easily offended.

[Celgress]

Dr. Who fans think every next episode is destroying the franchise! It's been that way forerever.

And not everyone thinks it's preachy or destroying the franchise. Some of us aren't so easily offended.

I have a feeling you're in the minority judging by what I've seen plus the nosedive in ratings and merch sales (even availability).

[CosmiComic]

I have a feeling you're in the minority judging by what I've seen plus the nosedive in ratings and merch sales (even availability).

We'll see about that. I don't have any data either way.