Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Nate Grey]

I'm not sure where exactly the hate is either.

The hate seems specifically aimed at the retcon, with all the other stuff ("eww a woman!" "eww a poc!") sprinkled throughout but in no way the overwhelming majority. There are even folks who like the retcon/everything but feel Jodie's tenure is still weaker than previous seasons. So big wtf for me but I just stick to the audios these days anyway.

[CosmiComic]

The hate seems specifically aimed at the retcon, with all the other stuff ("eww a woman!" "eww a poc!") sprinkled throughout but in no way the overwhelming majority. There are even folks who like the retcon/everything but feel Jodie's tenure is still weaker than previous seasons. So big wtf for me but I just stick to the audios these days anyway.

I'm not a big fan of the current season (I liked Graham) but it's not due to "women and PoC genociding white men"

[Nate Grey]

I'm not a big fan of the current season (I liked Graham) but it's not due to "women and PoC genociding white men"

Chibnall is just a poor writer. If there was a new mandate where everything he wrote sticks but here's a new writer worth a damn in his place, I think she'd shine.

[CosmiComic]

Chibnall is just a poor writer. If there was a new mandate where everything he wrote sticks but here's a new writer worth a damn in his place, I think she'd shine.

Yeah, I think the writer, not the actor, is the problem

[BeastieRunner]

are you talking about the Ruth Doctor?

Yes.

Sometimes I feel like coming to CBR is like visiting bizarro world. But fine I'll bite, where, where has the response to the Ruth Doctor been overwhelmingly negative? I could link the various Youtube videos, Facebook groups, et all that are praising her but this thread would ignore it like they ignored my posts about Iris Wildthyme. But fine, people are obsessed with this narrative, now so am I. Where. Where please.

Well, start with the official Doctor Who social media and you'll wet your noodle for the strong dislike for both the 13th and Ruth Doctor.

Yet when I interact with Whovians on fan pages, here, or IRL ... the only real criticism is about the writing.

Except my dad. He's a "THE DOCTOR CAN'T BE A WOMAN!" person but didn't care when it was rumored the Doctor might change race. I kind of get that argument but I don't agree with it. But it is over and done with now.

I'm not sure where exactly the hate is either.

I don't agree with it one iota yet it is there. It is here in this thread.

The hate seems specifically aimed at the retcon, with all the other stuff ("eww a woman!" "eww a poc!") sprinkled throughout but in no way the overwhelming majority. There are even folks who like the retcon/everything but feel Jodie's tenure is still weaker than previous seasons. So big wtf for me but I just stick to the audios these days anyway.

I think there's plenty to critique, both ways, for the story yet the sexist and racist hot takes are what takes traction.

That kills any real discussion about show or plot issues. ;(

I'm not a big fan of the current season (I liked Graham) but it's not due to "women and PoC genociding white men"

They need a new showrunner and a new show bible, IMHO.

Take a page from Big Finish would be my suggestion.

[CosmiComic]

I'm not familiar with Big Finish

[Nate Grey]

Yes.

Well, start with the official Doctor Who social media and you'll wet your noodle for the strong dislike for both the 13th and Ruth Doctor.

I prefaced CBR as bizarro world for a reason. I HAVE, for every 1 "ew Ruth Doctor" there's no less than 5 "Ruth is awesome/better than Jodie's Doctor."

If people are convinced that minority of critics is the majority, then I'm convinced its just they want to argue to argue and saying things as they actually are is counter to that.

That kills any real discussion about show or plot issues. ;(

You don't say (see what I said above).

Have at it I guess. It gets old but like I said it only seems to happen, here.

[Nate Grey]

I'm not familiar with Big Finish

Audio stories. They're mostly known for Doctor Who but they do other revivals like The Prisoner and Blake's 7.

Basically imagine an episode that you can't see but you can hear, and voila.

Between the 96 movie and the 2005 revival, the only Who besides comics and novels were at Big Finish. At the time they only had Doctors 5-8 to work, as in the original actors provided their voices. With 8 they got to do stories set after the 1996 TV movie and they are awesome.

Its not everyone's cup of tea I guess (they're akin to radio serials) but they tend to be VERY well written, that's why a lot of folks are saying at some point they hope Jodie goes there so we can get actual good stories for #13.

[CosmiComic]

Audio stories. They're mostly known for Doctor Who but they do other revivals like The Prisoner and Blake's 7.

Basically imagine an episode that you can't see but you can hear, and voila.

Between the 96 movie and the 2005 revival, the only Who besides comics and novels were at Big Finish. At the time they only had Doctors 5-8 to work, as in the original actors provided their voices. With 8 they got to do stories set after the 1996 TV movie and they are awesome.

Its not everyone's cup of tea I guess (they're akin to radio serials) but they tend to be VERY well written, that's why a lot of folks are saying at some point they hope Jodie goes there so we can get actual good stories for #13.

That's interesting.

I feel Jodie's Who could use much better material. She was good in Attack the Block. I find Graham more entertaining than her, and that's kinda disappointing.

[BeastieRunner]

Audio stories. They're mostly known for Doctor Who but they do other revivals like The Prisoner and Blake's 7.

Basically imagine an episode that you can't see but you can hear, and voila.

Between the 96 movie and the 2005 revival, the only Who besides comics and novels were at Big Finish. At the time they only had Doctors 5-8 to work, as in the original actors provided their voices. With 8 they got to do stories set after the 1996 TV movie and they are awesome.

Its not everyone's cup of tea I guess (they're akin to radio serials) but they tend to be VERY well written, that's why a lot of folks are saying at some point they hope Jodie goes there so we can get actual good stories for #13.

That's interesting.

I feel Jodie's Who could use much better material. She was good in Attack the Block. I find Graham more entertaining than her, and that's kinda disappointing.

The 8th Doctor stuff is really good and a nice bridge into the world of Big Finish.

I avoided the 8th for YEARS and the people in this thread gave me some really good suggestions as to where to start with the 8th.

But so much of it is excellent! And lots of places to go, explore, and collect.

[BeastieRunner]

I prefaced CBR as bizarro world for a reason. I HAVE, for every 1 "ew Ruth Doctor" there's no less than 5 "Ruth is awesome/better than Jodie's Doctor."

If people are convinced that minority of critics is the majority, then I'm convinced its just they want to argue to argue and saying things as they actually are is counter to that.



You don't say (see what I said above).

Have at it I guess. It gets old but like I said it only seems to happen, here.

I think that is a great point.

I haven't really noticed it that much in this thread until recently.

It seems to start with 2 posters, then 2 of us get sucked in, then the back and forth starts. and bogs everything down. I try to ignore it but here we are.

I just want to talk about Doctor Who!

[CosmiComic]

I think that is a great point.

I haven't really noticed it that much in this thread until recently.

It seems to start with 2 posters, then 2 of us get sucked in, then the back and forth starts. and bogs everything down. I try to ignore it but here we are.

I just want to talk about Doctor Who!

I'm confused as to who's the minority here.

[Celgress]

I think that is a great point.

I haven't really noticed it that much in this thread until recently.

It seems to start with 2 posters, then 2 of us get sucked in, then the back and forth starts. and bogs everything down. I try to ignore it but here we are.

I just want to talk about Doctor Who!

Well, blame the mods. This started in another unrelated thread. I offhandedly mentioned Dr. Who and Mik kept asking me to prove everything I stated (which is common knowledge such as the ratings decline since Capaldi and the initial boost Jodie received) thus things spiraled way out of control. I apologize because the mods made a mistake, IMHO, not putting this in its own thread or deleting the posts from the other thread completely.

[CosmiComic]

Well, blame the mods. This started in another unrelated thread. I offhandedly mentioned Dr. Who and Mik kept asking me to prove everything I stated (which is common knowledge such as the ratings decline since Capaldi and the initial boost Jodie received) thus things spiraled way out of control. I apologize because the mods made a mistake, IMHO, not putting this in its own thread or deleting the posts from the other thread completely.

Listen, I'll stop this discussion if it's distracting. I don't want to derail the discussion. But your proof wasn't convincing

[Celgress]

Listen, I'll stop this discussion if it's distracting. I don't want to derail the discussion. But your proof wasn't convincing

I don't want to bog down this thread either but I gave you the starting point link for the information and it's all there. What else do you want? There is nothing I've said that is untrue. Granted, some is my opinion but the ratings and merch sales numbers don't lie Doctor Who is in a clear state of serious decline. We can debate the various reasons but the decline is very real.