Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Kyer]

Paradox!

Where did the tin soldier without the rifle actually come from? From Danny? He got it from Clara. Clara gave it to the Doctor....where it eventually ended up with Danny and then Danny's descendants.

Mine head hurts.

Now I have to wait for the repeat on Saturday to hear again just what Child-Doctor's parents/guardians were saying about him. Was interrupted just then (figures.)

Am also now wondering if one of those guardians was ginger.

Arc tie-ins: Mirrors in all episodes? Reflections? Introspection of the soul? Heaven and possible 'judgement by "god"'?)

Just had a thought: How do we know that kid in the barn was The Doctor's younger self and not his son...with one of the guardians being a Younger Doctor....and the son later begot Susan Foreman?

I feel like Sherlock....need more data!

[Carabas]

Paradox!

Where did the tin soldier without the rifle actually come from? From Danny?

Yes. It was in the box with his other plastic soldiers. It was originally his.

[Kyer]

Yes. It was in the box with his other plastic soldiers. It was originally his.

But Clara gave it to childhood Doctor (I think it's the Doctor) so how did did Clara get it to give it to young Danny? I thought while watching the eppie that she took it from Danny's stuff, but have vague recollection of Danny child saying that they were not his but belonged to the orphanage?

Really, I got to rewatch Listen.
I think the DVD set for Season 8 is available in December. Must get.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

But Clara gave it to childhood Doctor (I think it's the Doctor) so how did did Clara get it to give it to young Danny? I thought while watching the eppie that she took it from Danny's stuff, but have vague recollection of Danny child saying that they were not his but belonged to the orphanage?

Really, I got to rewatch Listen.
I think the DVD set for Season 8 is available in December. Must get.

the great grandson gave it to her in the future. It was a family heirloom

[Jim Kelly]

The soldier without the gun was in the box that belongs to the home but now belongs to Rupert (because Clara said so). He even gives a name for the soldier--Dan the Soldier Man. This soldier is passed down to Orson Pink. Clara then takes Dan the Soldier Man from Orson and gives it to the little Doctor in the barn. There's no loop--although there is a timey-wimey twist. We mght assume that Dan the Soldier Man is now on the Tardis somewhere.

Of course, it's possible that the boy in the barn wasn't the Doctor and this is just misdirection. He could be the Master. But I don't think so. I think we were meant to make a connection between the barn and the Doctor (re: DAY OF THE DOCTOR) and that little easter egg doesn't work unless it really is the Doctor in the barn.

[Cyke]

I just realized something. At the end of the episode Clara leaves the gunless toy soldier, that Orson Pink gave her, with the young Doctor. Maybe that is how his need not to need a gun started.

Yep, it's most certainly implied. When young Rupert and Clara talk about the soldier being so brave that he doesn't need a gun, there's a quick shot of just Capaldi on the chair.

But as a whole, the episode ended up being a really, really neat deconstruction of the Doctor himself. Everything -- from the nature of his companions to his disgust for guns to even his search for knowledge, was under the microscope. We just didn't know it until she started talking to Kid Hartnell.

(speaking of kids, I remember watching the Fourth and Fifth Doctors. I recognized that they were heroes, but they weren't particularly brave heroes like Bond or Batman -- they could get scared in the face of mortal danger, too. And now it's taken this long to answer why that is! Frankly, that fear is why I connect with the Doctor moreso than most other heroes.)

----

Anyway, I quite liked this episode though I'm still a bit in the dark about who was under the blanket or such. But it dawned upon me that, in looking back at episodes like Blink and Midnight, that the show's quite good at talking about common fears, so that the show's more relatable to the audience. It did so here, but the episode implies that the Doctor's the kind of hero we need because he understands what we go through. Superman's never scared of a bullet, for example. Spider-Man's fears tend to be more personal. The Doctor's fears are rather universal.

Also, this episode provided something I've wanted since wayyy back in the Lazarus Experiment -- quiet character moments. That episode had a really strong climax where Mark Gatiss and David Tennant match acting chops and philosophical differences, and Lazarus seemingly passes away. But then Doctor Who conventions kicked in, Lazarus turned into a monster, and we got the same ho-hum corridor chase scene once again. That entire dramatic chase was merely the denouement. But finally, in season 8, we get an episode with no real antagonist, no chase scenes, no rapidfire action scenes -- and it leads to one heck of a character study for the Doctor, while simultaneously displaying Coleman and Anderson's own abilities very well here. That Anderson can flip so differently between two characters is really impressive, and the script at times is more concerned with Clara and Danny/Rupert making connections rather than forwarding the plot. It's really refreshing. So the episode title probably served a hidden command: listen to these actors. Their performances are great, the writing and direction patient.

Lastly, I'm really impressed with how the show is handling what appears to be PTSD in a rather mature way. It's serious and nothing to joke at (as Clara found out the hard way), but also that even if she didn't know, both Clara and Danny understand that they're both humans and thus make mistakes. Not every depiction of military-related PTSD needs to show a character waking up from a sweaty nightmare or crouching in sadness in the shower; this episode was rather poignant in showing that even every day tasks that we take for granted -- like flirting -- can be a struggle.

[Jim Kelly]

So why does he wear a pink shirt? Danny says that he doesn't like his last name and yet he wears a pink shirt to his dinner with Clara. He's sending confusing signals.

And why does the Doctor keep changing his shirt? We never got one of those nice moments like we got with the two previous (or some other Doctors before them), where we see him selecting his outfit. It doesn't appear that he's settled on how he wants to present himself.

[Vidocq]

So why does he wear a pink shirt? Danny says that he doesn't like his last name and yet he wears a pink shirt to his dinner with Clara. He's sending confusing signals.

Maybe he picked up that fashion tip from the Power Rangers.

[Vidocq]

Lastly, I'm really impressed with how the show is handling what appears to be PTSD in a rather mature way. It's serious and nothing to joke at (as Clara found out the hard way), but also that even if she didn't know, both Clara and Danny understand that they're both humans and thus make mistakes. Not every depiction of military-related PTSD needs to show a character waking up from a sweaty nightmare or crouching in sadness in the shower; this episode was rather poignant in showing that even every day tasks that we take for granted -- like flirting -- can be a struggle.

I forgot to mention that, I agree, It's refreshing seeing someone expressing PTSD (and every other mental illness, really) in a subdued, not overly-dramatic way.

[Carabas]

But Clara gave it to childhood Doctor (I think it's the Doctor) so how did did Clara get it to give it to young Danny?

Clara didn't give it to young Rupert. It already was young Rupert's from the beginning.

Clara showed it to young Rupert, and named the soldier 'Corporal Dan' or something like that, and left it in his care.
Young Rupert then became old Rupert and changed his name to Danny, keeping the soldier, eventually giving it to his kid, who gave it to his kid, who gave it to Orson Pink.

Clara then took it from Orson Pink and gave it to kid Doctor. Or whomever that was.

[Carabas]

So why does he wear a pink shirt? Danny says that he doesn't like his last name and yet he wears a pink shirt to his dinner with Clara. He's sending confusing signals.

Because Clara said she liked pink?

And why does the Doctor keep changing his shirt? We never got one of those nice moments like we got with the two previous (or some other Doctors before them), where we see him selecting his outfit. It doesn't appear that he's settled on how he wants to present himself.

Better question: why didn't the previous Doctors ever change their shirt?

[Spike-X]

One of the things that I most enjoyed out of Listen was visiting the Doctor's childhood; it's a part of the character that we never really see so it was a great surprise. But I am interested in what everyone else thinks when it comes down to the Doctor's childhood. Throughout the show the Doctors childhood has only been hinted at, but never really seen until now. Like everyone else I loved visiting the Doctor when he was just a kid as we've now learnt a whole lot more about the character. So should we learn even More about the the characters childhood? Some fans sure want to; and some fans don't. Though I can see why because what party makes the Doctor a good character is the mystery. So If we're to learn even more about the character it may just slightly make the Doctor less interesting.

Am interested to know if someone else here thinks differently. Why should we learn even more about the character?

An occasional hint here and there is better, I think. I don't know if I'd like them to do Doctor Who: Year One or anything like that.

[Spike-X]

The thing is, the TARDIS is perfectly capable of traveling to places not inside our universe. Especially if some idiot turned off the safeties and some other idiot who doesn't know the rules is driving.

Yeah, good point.

[Spike-X]

So why does he wear a pink shirt? Danny says that he doesn't like his last name...

No he doesn't. It's his first name (Rupert) he doesn't like, which is why he changed it.

And why does the Doctor keep changing his shirt?

For the same reason anyone else does, I imagine.

[brettc1]

"I don't take orders, Clara."

"Do as you're told."

Brilliant!

One small thing though. I thought it was established, long ago, that without extraordinary means it was impossible to travel into Gallifrey's past. This is a necessity imposed by Rassilon to prevent the Time Lord's from constantly rewriting their own history and their society devolving into chaos.

One assumes a device like The Moment would have the power to overcome this limitation, but for the Tardis to simply circumvent this basic law seems odd.