Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[ChrisIII]

Listened to the Nightmare Fair audio. Kind of wonder how true it is to the original script, since it seems it's still very much the toned down, nicer to companions Sixth Doctor of the other audios and most of the non-Mindwarp "Evidence" in Trial of A time Lord, although maybe the original season 23 kind of intended this as well as TOATL.
Funny thing is the Toymaker refers to a human head being used as a ball in a similar sense.

Now listening to "Master". Think McCoy is best in his moments where he's just kind of talking normally or mysteriously (such as telling the story to the killer) but has a lot of trouble when the Doctor has to yell/scream/be angry and kind of really overacts. It's also kind of interesting comparing it a bit to Human Nature (both versions) and the Human Master in Yana, although Yana in contrast seemed a bit more absent minded than "John Smith" in this story. Haven't finished it yet.

Kind of wonder how Ainley would've done with the story, although Beevers is very good.

[ChrisIII]

Finished the story. Kind of interesting that it also kind of foreshadows certain aspects of the Master's Nuwho arcs, although differently:

-Giving the Master an origin story, although one tied more to the Doctor than the schism/drum stuff. Also a bit on the Doctor's origin as well, and slightly similar to the Listen stuff. Remember when Listen's retcon (Clara helping to comfort the young Doctor) was the big complaint? Seems so quaint now next to the Timeless Child stuff.

-Also the Doctor trying to redeem the Master, a recurring arc in the new series. We see maybe a tiny bit of this in the Pertwee years but it's largely absent from 4-8 in the show of course (apart from maybe some slight bits in the Five Doctors).

-Wonder if the cat stuff was a slight nod to Survival.

-Of course having Madoc around as a Jack The Ripper/Jekyll and Hyde type analog is quite interesting in that he was basically another horror icon, Dr. Frankenstein as Solon, and in WAR GAMES his character was the main villain as War Lord, but it's kind of also obvious the Master was inspired by the War Chief from the same serial (and some 'fanon' holds possibly is the Master). Madoc also could've made a good Master himself. Wonder if he was considered?

[ChrisIII]

Lots of new photos, interviews from Ncuti and Millie lately.

-Ncuti's Doctor hair is tinted a shade of blue and his mustache, for the special filming at least (When these interviews were filmed probably), was fake as he had just finished his Sex Education role. Kind of puts him in good company with Nicholas Courtney, who played the Brigadier and wore a fake mustache except when he had to be distinct from another version of himself, in INFERNO and MAWDRYN UNDEAD. I think the only time he had a real one was the Sarah Jane story.

-There will be a season 14 preview after the special. Christmas-wise at least,think the last time we got that was way back in 2016 with RETURN OF DOCTOR MYSTERIO. TWICE UPON A TIME I don't think had a preview for 11 as it wasn't ready yet and didn't debut till Fall of '18. And there hasn't been a Christmas special since TWICE anyway. EVE I think had a preview for Sea Devils, not sure if Resolution or Revolution had any previews for seasons 12 and 13/Flux.

-Speaking of Sea Devils kind of saw the old one recently. Clarke's score is kind of odd, some times it's chilling and fits but other times it's just odd where it's scoring every gesture or step a character makes (Keff McCollugh did this kind of thing a few times too during some of the Seventh Doctor stories). Gives the story a unique feel. He mostly improved with his Fifth and Sixth Doctor stories, especially Earthshock and Ressurection of the Daleks, creating the somewhat iconic 80's Cyberman theme. Edwin Richfield was pretty good as the Brig substitute Captain Hart (No relation to the Torchwood character, except maybe intentionally named the same by RTD), too bad his second WHO role was Mestor in Twin Dillema. Also Star Wars fans might note the original Jabba actor as one of the fort workers.

[ChrisIII]

Review for Church on Ruby Road are coming in and they're all pretty positive.

There's naturally some comparisons to other Doctors, mainly seems to be that Ncuti has Matt Smith's energy but another article noted he's a bit like Pertwee, which I find interesting. Maybe meaning he's a more physical Doctor or uses more gadgets? Or that Doctor's more flamboyant side. Both of which I think were partly based on Jon's real personality. (We did see some aspects of Pertwee in Capaldi's Doctor although some of that might be the slight physical resemblance).

For all the third Doctor's more serious moments compared to his predecessor and successors, remember this was the Doctor with the Karate, the yellow sports car, an infinity for capes and also stealing bites of sandwiches' and wine in the middle of saving the world...and the actor's most famous other role was a talking scarecrow.

Also it'd be awesome if Kate and/or Mel could take Bessie out of storage again. She's never really gotten a decent appearance yet apart from Name of the Doctor recycling footage from The Five Doctors.

[Deathstroke]

Big Finish is offering a free download of the complete Sarah Jane Smith audio drama "Comeback" through their website for the next 72 hours.

You have to log in to your account in order to unlock the download. I took advantage of it. The Code is MERRY23, btw.

[Chris Lang]

- 2 hopefully gets out of the spinning vortex and either gets reunited with Jamie and does Two Doctors or helps with UNIT.

I'm a fan of this as an explanation for how the Second Doctor and Jamie were 'working for the Time Lords' in the Two Doctors, when they had had NO contact with the Time Lords prior to the ending of 'The War Games' where the Time Lords split them up and then forced the Second Doctor to regenerate.

My own headcanon is that bigeneration ONLY happens in extreme circumstances where a Time Lord has unfinished business that for some reason can't be finished in their next incarnation. Tenth/Fourteenth/whatever's unfinished business was with the Nobles and healing from trauma.

Okay, here's my Two Doctors headcanon. When the Time Lords forced the Second Doctor to regenerate, there was a strange side-effect that caused a bigeneration. Only a few were allowed to recall that this even happened. But they had this other version of the Second Doctor around after they'd banished the Third Doctor to Earth, so they decided to make good use of him by making him work for them. And they allowed him one of his previous companions, but only one, which is why he was traveling with Jamie with Zoe, Victoria, or others nowhere to be seen.

A classic companion it seems that the classic series really didn't know what to do with it seems (apart from making her get along better with the Doctor than Peri), and was sort of seen as stunt casting at the time. Plus she never gets an introductory story, although I suppose maybe the intention might've been for one down the line but then Colin got fired and that got left to the novels and audios.


Here of course we see her computer talents finally but also Langford even gets a bit of her musical talent (apart from of course, the old scream).

Although of course Bonnie has played Mel again several times in the Big Finish audios alongside Baker and McCoy (although I think I've only heard the Juggernaughts and it was some time ago) and also I guess she's done some with Ruth Madeley as well but as a different character.

Wonder if you could actually time travel told yourself or another fan during the Wilderness years the Doctor would split into two and one would retire with Mel what they'd think....

Personally, I think Mel's best story during the Seventh Doctor era was Paradise Towers, where she got to investigate the strange goings on at the Towers herself and inspire the cowardly Pex to overcome his fears and actually become a hero and save lives for real.

[ChrisIII]

It also works for the second Doctor remembering that Jaime and Zoe had their memories erased in Five Doctors despite being forced to regenerate shortly after.

I suppose it could also work for Three Doctors, as to why the first and second aren't exactly scared that the Time Lords finally tracked them down. (ditto with Five and Day) although in those cases, it could just be an easy explanation that the time lords (or the future Doctors in Day) explained that these were Time Lords from the Doctor's personal future where their relationship just changed, and the Doctor simply forgot about that due to the Timeline flux that happens during multi-Doctor stories (and presumably happened with the Bigeneration too-Fifteen doesn't seem to remember Fourteen's side of the Bigeneration and needs to be told what's going on).

[Chris Lang]

It also works for the second Doctor remembering that Jaime and Zoe had their memories erased in Five Doctors despite being forced to regenerate shortly after.

I suppose it could also work for Three Doctors, as to why the first and second aren't exactly scared that the Time Lords finally tracked them down. (ditto with Five and Day) although in those cases, it could just be an easy explanation that the time lords (or the future Doctors in Day) explained that these were Time Lords from the Doctor's personal future where their relationship just changed, and the Doctor simply forgot about that due to the Timeline flux that happens during multi-Doctor stories (and presumably happened with the Bigeneration too-Fifteen doesn't seem to remember Fourteen's side of the Bigeneration and needs to be told what's going on).

Well, it could certainly explain a few weird continuity issues, that's for sure. The question is, was bigeneration real all along and certain high-ranking Time Lords covered up its existence, or was it a myth made real by the Toymaker and/or the 'superstition at the edge of the universe' thing in Wild Blue Yonder?

As it is, however, it seems it's a means of giving one face of the Doctor a happier ending than originally presented. And ditto for Donna Noble. In the short term, at least, these specials do for The Tenth Doctor and Donna Noble what Matrix Resurrections did for Neo and Trinity (as you yourself mentioned in another thread): It gives a happier status quo to characters previously left with somewhat less happy fates when last chronologically seen.

[Deathstroke]

Actor Richard Franklin, who played UNIT captain Mike Yates in Terror of the Autons and would reprise the role in a bunch of other specials, audiobooks and even in a book that Franklin wrote, has passed away.

[ChrisIII]

Starting the special now, seen the preview for the new season though.


-Could be a modern update of the Tractators, although it might just be a case of a new villain that closely resembles an old one that's happened a few times.

-Looks like Varma and Groff are in the same episode. Kind of wonder if it might be misdirection, Varma is actually the villain instead of Groff, kind of like Spyfall made you think Lenny Henry was the main villain when it was actually Dhawan's Master with Henry as his "companion". Kind of be interesting if Varma is the Master, or a "new" Missy so to speak, but perhaps with a personality closer to Delgado's.

-Looks like we're getting a Beatles episode.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I loved the episode. 15 follows 12's curiosity side by trying to figure out how magic and myth works. It's a flip on 9/10's depth of knowledge.

15 and Ruby feel like contemporaries.

[ChrisIII]

The Doctor and Ruby were both great. Kind of curious if her foster mother and grandmother will show up later and wonder where she's gone, or if her grandmother passes while she's away like what happened with Mel.

The Doctor flirting also seemed to be a slight nod/reversal to Eccleston's "No!" in Rose.

The Goblin stuff was a bit 'undercooked' although it's interesting there seems to be more of a fantasy focus as RTD said there would be, and of course the hint that the Doctor might be facing off against legions/pantheon/god like beings later on. Maybe they should have Stephen Wyatt (Paradise Towers and Greatest Show in the Galaxy) to write a script, this is kind of his thing. WHO of course has never really been really 'science' fiction, although it seemed like it was trying for that during the first part of the JNT era (Late Baker and Davison).

The Goblins being a time-sensitive race is interesting, in the classic series in particular there were occasionally other time-travelling races, just not ones with the level of technology the Time lords had. Tharils (Warriors Gate) Delta and The Bannermen's tour group, humanity to a degree, and of course the Daleks and the Cybermen all have had limited time travel. Of course the Weeping Angels although they mainly weaponize it.

Kind of funny in the Tractators show up (sure seem to be something similar in the teaser) as they're from that particular era. Kind of would fit with the whole "mavity" thing going on a bit...

Back to the Goblin stuff it is a Doctor Who doctor/companion soft reboot and I don't think the villains have ever really been that important to a lot of those as much as establishing the new Doctor/companion and sort of setting up the new story arc. The Auton plot was extremely secondary to Rose, Prisoner Zero/floating eye aliens wasn't much of a big deal (apart from maybe the Olivia Coleman early guest spot). Sycorax never showed up again....classic wise, Troughton, Davision, McCoy and Mcgann started with recurring foes, Pertwee did get a good one with the Autons, but the Fourth Doctor had a giant robot and Sixth had that caterpillar thing...and of course the very first episode ever (if not the whole serial) was entirely a Doctor/companion set up with no villain unless you count the Doctor himself.

[80sbaby]

So Ncuti Gatwa is definitely the coolest Doctor we've gotten in the modern era. Is he also the youngest actor to play the role?

[Jcogginsa]

So Ncuti Gatwa is definitely the coolest Doctor we've gotten in the modern era. Is he also the youngest actor to play the role?

No, that's still Matt Smith

[ChrisIII]

Actor Richard Franklin, who played UNIT captain Mike Yates in Terror of the Autons and would reprise the role in a bunch of other specials, audiobooks and even in a book that Franklin wrote, has passed away.

Yates was always kind of an interesting character in the UNIT trio. I think like with the Third Doctor it's sort of subtly implied he sort of has feelings for Jo that are mostly hidden but you can kind of see it in his face a few times. The novels also state that he's the second companion mentioned in the weird bit in "Timelash" about the Third Doctor travelling with two companions.

He also of course was in the Fourth Doctor audios Tom did before Big Finish, although I don't know if he travelled with him there.

Franklin also had a small role in ROGUE ONE as one of Galen Erso's scientists who helped build the Death Star.