Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Crimson Knight]

Dramatically speaking, I quite liked how this episode went, and it further shows the season's emphasis on character. Clara calling out the Doctor to that degree hasn't been seen since Martha I think, as far as consistent companions go (and barring any alternate timelines, of course). It was also one of Martha's finest moments, too. And this Doctor is probably the closest out of all of them in terms of just being flat-out of his mind, so he needs to be called out. I don't mind so much that his power was reduced just a tad in this episode, since the season seems to be more about exploring the show's classic tropes (in this case, the moral dilemma) as well as the Doctor's character.

Courtney got a good amount of agency here -- while we the audience tend to abhor kids in the cast (I certainly do), Courtney never came across as someone bratty. It's like the show is pointing out that even bad kids just need the right stimuli and supportive environment to realize their potential.

The astronaut herself, though, was a bit odd to me. I'm not sure if it was the actress or the writing or the direction, but she didn't seem at all alarmed or surprised at all with the moon-birth (which, by the way, was a *really* beautiful SFX shot. They even got the haze of the sunny atmosphere down pat). It seemed like, ironically, the gravity of the situation hadn't dawned upon her, and for all the fuss that she was raising throughout the episode, she was incredibly calm and unmoved with the giant space dragon-thingie.

Which brings me to the premise itself. I loved most of the character moments and acting. The actual premise itself though was so far fetched that I had trouble sticking the dialogue back to the emergency at hand. And because it was just so wild, Clara's plea to the Earth was really unfulfilling and unconvincing, and I wondered if the general population even understood what was going on before committing to 45 minutes of darkness just because a strange woman on TV asked you to.

And with all the work that had been done on the moon in the 60s and 70s, with the lunar rovers up there, and no doubt a tad more work done between now and the episode, somebody would have found those bacterial spiders sooner rather than later.

Lastly, the giant space dragon -- the largest baby the universe has ever seen, according to the episode -- has one thing in common with Tribbles: they're born pregnant. Yikes.

So, all in all, I liked most of the actors here and the dialogue. The premise was much too whack, from the moon baby to the Doctor's logic in leaving Clara behind to the astronaut herself. It's a bit of a mixed bag but still part of a string of great episodes so far this season for me.

P.S. From these last two episodes, I think I can safely declare that Courtney > Adric. And her parents are adorably supportive, too.

What Martha moment are you referring to? I can remember Donna, maybe Amy, but not sure about M-i-i-i-i-i-s Missus Jones.

And, do you mean Courtney equals Adric, or is greater than him/less? Not attacking you or anything, or I just never really understand what those symbols mean. Greater, less, all that.

And, Clara wasn't asking them for darkness. She was asking them to turn off, or leave on/turn on their lights, to indicate their decision. It could've been either one, though she was likely hoping for light, especially with what she ultimately did.

[Jim Kelly]

Of the leaving scenes, Martha's is one of the better written, but again it's like a set piece that's been tacked on, almost as an after thought, in order to get the actress out of the way--and one of many scenes that were tacked onto the end of "Last of the Time Lords." And while Martha has her say, it leaves me rather unsatisfied, because she took all that grief from the Doctor and okay she let's him know that she's not going to hang about anymore, but he never really takes it in and faces up to the shabby treatment he gave Martha. She even lets him off the hook, by throwing him her phone and promising she'll be back. So what lesson was learned? The Doctor goes right onto "Time Crash" and/or "Voyage of the Damned" as if Martha Jones was just an old pair of trainers he tossed in the corner.

[Cyke]

What Martha moment are you referring to? I can remember Donna, maybe Amy, but not sure about M-i-i-i-i-i-s Missus Jones.

Martha leaving the Doctor. I cheered (and maybe snapped my fingers a little bit) when her speech put the Doctor in a painfully awkward place.

But overall, if there's one thing I love about the revival since Rose, it's the show's attention to how the Doctor treats his companions in the first place. They aren't quirks of the Doctor, they're full on interactions between two people, along with the (mostly) appropriate consequences.

And, do you mean Courtney equals Adric, or is greater than him/less? Not attacking you or anything, or I just never really understand what those symbols mean. Greater, less, all that.

Greater than. I'll take an adventure with Courtney over Adric any day.

And, Clara wasn't asking them for darkness. She was asking them to turn off, or leave on/turn on their lights, to indicate their decision. It could've been either one, though she was likely hoping for light, especially with what she ultimately did.

Those lights had to be off for 45 minutes for Clara to judge, which is what she asked of them if they chose one way, and she needed 45 minutes from the world to properly gauge the vote. Entire cities and a few nations made that decision by shutting off the lights. But can you imagine a total stranger appearing out of TV and asking you to do it? Clara isn't exactly an international house hold name fighting for a morally popular cause -- hell, her speech to the Earth was vague as hell (after all, it was the teaser).

By the way, only half the planet got to vote via the lights. If you were on the other side of the Earth or if you had daylight, you essentially had no say in the matter.

[Crimson Knight]

Martha leaving the Doctor. I cheered (and maybe snapped my fingers a little bit) when her speech put the Doctor in a painfully awkward place.

But overall, if there's one thing I love about the revival since Rose, it's the show's attention to how the Doctor treats his companions in the first place. They aren't quirks of the Doctor, they're full on interactions between two people, along with the (mostly) appropriate consequences.



Greater than. I'll take an adventure with Courtney over Adric any day.



Those lights had to be off for 45 minutes for Clara to judge, which is what she asked of them if they chose one way, and she needed 45 minutes from the world to properly gauge the vote. Entire cities and a few nations made that decision by shutting off the lights. But can you imagine a total stranger appearing out of TV and asking you to do it? Clara isn't exactly an international house hold name fighting for a morally popular cause -- hell, her speech to the Earth was vague as hell (after all, it was the teaser).

By the way, only half the planet got to vote via the lights. If you were on the other side of the Earth or if you had daylight, you essentially had no say in the matter.

Yeah. I thought the Doctor and Martha worked better in Smith and Jones, when it was two people bumping into each other, seeing what was what, nolt knowing and trying to see what to do. If they'd somehow been able to keep that, unlike how it was, with ehr not being able to really shine and him pining for Rose.

Thankfully, in three in a row of Season 4, she got her due, with Donna, and Doctor and UNIT, so that was good. Plus, all the finale madness, with either Rose, or Donna getting shoved aside a bit.

LOVED 4 for that, ne of my favourites, episodes, companion, way the 10th was, Davros, everything. Beautiful, really. 8 is turning out a good mix too, but something I noticed was the fact that, unlike most modern Seasons, this is one with only one two-parter.

Dark Water and Death in Heaven, with all others either connected, or arcing, or but direct continuation story wise. Wonder why that is? 7 was similar - unless Angels in Manhattan and The Snowmen count, or The Snowmen and Bells of St. John. Otherwise, I'm not sure Season 7 had any, with arcs, and goodbyes, and mysteries and movie type episodes.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I understand now.

Yeah, that was a shame. But had to go with what they could see, and since they couldn't contact the Earth again, had to just trust they'd do that, then, so, on what they'd be able to see.

[JCAll]

Honestly, after setting up a stable relationship for half the season, I expected Clara to one of the companions that just decides to go home. How many companions of the New series have parted willingly and on good terms with the Doctor? Mickey and Craig? I like when that happens. Not everything needs to be dramatic.

[Jim Kelly]

If you think about it Rory and Amy were individually or together separated from the Doctor or each other for a lot of the time they were on the show. Amy separated from Rory even though she was supposed to marry him, to go off with the Doctor. Rory ceased to exist and was forgotten by Amy. Amy was asleep and separated from Rory and the Doctor, though they didn't realize it (or Rory didn't--not sure about the Doctor). Then the Doctor leaves them to go on his leaving tour. Then Amy and Rory want the Doctor to stay out of their lives, to let them have a break. Then Rory and Amy are separated from each other. And finally Amy and Rory are together, but separated from the Doctor.

The writers were all over the map with Rory and Amy. Amy loves Rory--then she doesn't--then she does. Amy is a fashion model--then she's a children's book writer. Rory and Amy love traveliing with the Doctor--then they hate it.

[Angilasman]

You know, I feel that after the melodrama of the RTD era and the whimsical relationships of the Matt Smith era there's been a concentrated effort to make the acting and relationships more naturalistic this season.

[Crimson Knight]

You know, I feel that after the melodrama of the RTD era and the whimsical relationships of the Matt Smith era there's been a concentrated effort to make the acting and relationships more naturalistic this season.

Really? Any particular moments? Feel they're pulling it off?

[Jim Kelly]

I have a problem believing that any of the modern day companions would voluntarily give up travelling in the Tardis with the Doctor. After all, the whole reason we love DOCTOR WHO is that it fufills our fantasies--so why would one of our own give that up? Okay, yeah they almost get killed every episode, but early on a companion accepts that fact and makes the commitment and they have the best times.

Gallifreyans--Susan (even though she gave it up for the dumbest reason) and Romana--sure, they don't need the Doctor's Tardis, they can grow their own. People from the future who have already travelled to distant planets--Steven, Vicki, Sara Kingdom, Zoe, Leela, Nyssa, Turlough, Jack Harkness--they have seen things almost as wondrous. Perhaps those from the distant past--Katarina, Jamie, Victoria--are suffering from future shock and only want to return to the familiar.

Ian and Barbara were kidnapped without warning--so I see why they were ready to use any means they could to get back to London in 1965. But other modern era companions have had the luxury of returning home whenever they want--for them the Tardis is like a free pass to Disney World they can use whenever they desire. Why would you cancel your ticket?

[Xalfrea]

This episode, combined with so many elements as seen since the beginning of Series 8, really makes it clear who Capaldi is.

Some say he's the new Pertwee because of the costume, Moffat says he's the new Tom because of his loner attitude, others say he's the new Colin/McCoy because of his darker tendencies. But in truth he isn't any of those.

Capaldi is the new Hartnell. And not the Hartnell that we see during Classic seasons 2, 3 and early 4. Like, Season 1 Hartnell. Heck one could even see the pilot Hartnell being evoked in Capaldi's demeanor, attitude and outlook throughout series 8. Now, one could sort of see that as a symbolism of the new regen cycle, as if the cycle is almost literally starting over again. Or one could see it as the Time Lords wanting to screw around with The Doctor again. Add the fact that we've gotten two teachers in the show, a student, and the two teachers revolving around that exact same school, plus Capaldi himself being a fan since the very beginning...yeah, I think that's pretty indicative.

And I rather like that they're doing this again. Especially as it gives a proverbial middle finger to those folks who can't get over the sexy woobie heartthrobs that were David Tennant and Matt Smith. Sure, they had their dark moments, but I theorize that people gave a free pass to that because tortured, young folk who are a lot older than they are are really sexy.

[Alex L]

Anyone else realize that the only reason a choice had to be made at all was due to the Doctor's arrival? Without the Doctor and friends involved the spider-germs would have likely killed the entire expedition. And even if the commander had managed to survive she would have no idea what was going on with the Moon or whether setting off the nukes would help or make things worse.

Basically, sans The Doctor, Clara and Courtney the Moon hatching would have been an inevitability rather than something that could be allowed or prevented by humanity or its representtives on the scene.

There is a distinct possibility that the commander could have somehow made it to the nukes.

But even assuming that wasn't true, the key moment was Clara imploring humanity to take another look at the moon -- this is the event that would launch us to the stars.

And IMO the Doctor lied about not knowing what would happen, which is why Clara is furious at him. She feels manipulated, the Doctor already knows what the correct choice is and played stupid. And sure, it worked out this time, but what if Clara let the nukes go off? She would have killed an innocent being for absolutely no reason and the Doctor would have stood there and watched it happen.

[Jim Kelly]

It's a difficult philosophical argument. I'm having a hard time grasping it. But it's an argument best understood and discussed in a calm manner not in a shouting match. If they had set this up earlier with Clara and the Doctor debating the question as an abstract proposition, then we would know why Clara is furious later.

What was expected of the Doctor? If he interferes he's patronizing, if he doesn't interfere he's dispassionate. Whatever--it's one of those arguments you can't win no matter what you do. I have a hard time accepting that Clara would do that to the Doctor.

It reminds me a lot of "The Waters of Mars" and how that one ended. In fact, the Doctor did exactly the opposite that time and got yelled at for that, too--again by an Earth woman. So what's a Time Lord to do?

That wasn't one of my favourite Ten stories; however, they did a good job explaining the philosophical problem--and the Doctor didn't even have a companion with him to act as a sounding board.

Capaldi is the new Hartnell.

I agree with that. He has aspects of other Doctors, but he's mostly like the First Doctor. I wonder if now would be a good time to bring back Susan. They could feature Carol Ann Ford in a cameo role as she regenerates into a new Susan played by a young actress.

[Xalfrea]

I think if that actually happened, I admit that'll be the first time I would actually cry from watching the show.

Poor Susan, she's been through hell after she left.

[Kyer]

I agree with that. He has aspects of other Doctors, but he's mostly like the First Doctor. I wonder if now would be a good time to bring back Susan. They could feature Carol Ann Ford in a cameo role as she regenerates into a new Susan played by a young actress.

Yep. They should do something like that before the chance is gone forever. It could be done without a cameo by Ann Ford, but why do without? Unless the actress herself said no.

[Angilasman]

Really? Any particular moments? Feel they're pulling it off?

Yes, yes I do.

I feel the relationship between Clara and Danny has been handled in a very adult way when compared to the grand gestures and such which characterized romance in previous seasons. Clara was a more typically idealized character in Series 7, but now feels more like a rounded, real individual. The Doctor is now portrayed as more difficult and fallible (I like a Doctor who can make mistakes). The relationship between Clara and the Doctor is very smart. Take the conflict between the two in the end of the last episode: you can completely understand their perspectives, but neither is really right or wrong.