Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Crimson Knight]

That really shouldn't stop you from enjoying them. Wear it, own it, be proud of it If you wear it with confidence, it'll seem like a natural fit.



(warning: wall of text!)

...I've no idea what we're talking about here or what prompted this, especially since the episode is more than a few weeks old by now. Are you referring to Fenton, the old grump? If so, I recall talking about him earlier and bringing in race and class because he kept lumping people in groups as "the other." He referred to Rigsy and the victims as something like, "those kind" or "you people," and was just generally hateful all around. I don't remember exactly what I said in my review post, so I'd only be positing a guess between race or class regarding Fenton, but one thing to consider is that racism and classism often intersect, especially in city life.

But grouping people together and then blaming them via stereotypes is classic racist/classist behavior to begin with, because it doesn't seek to identify the individual or question the systems that are in place. Additionally, it was quite clear that the writing painted him as an antagonist, and so such hostile worldviews would be easier to put into an antagonist role. We're not looking at a guy who sees the world as roses, after all; he's not only deeply cynical, but extremely bitter at certain individuals. Who is he showing hostility against, and what do they have in common? Well, one thing's for sure: he definitely doesn't like the neighborhood that the episode's set in, nor does he like the graffiti art made in tribute to the victims -- everything's black and white to him with no imagination to conceive otherwise (which, on another level, is a good comparison to the villains, who provide really vibrant visuals in ways that delightfully don't make sense) -- and yet graffiti art is gaining more and more mainstream acceptance and even commissions, but traditionally it's seen as a nuisance made by people of color.

But in the real world, if someone is that bitter against a particular type of people, it's never ever handwaved as "that's just who he is," because then it not only excuses his behavior, but de-legitimizes any sort of harm he's done or he could enact; in the real world years of that kind of view would be called out. Indeed, I would hazard a guess that the writer envisioned the character as an older man to properly imply that he's got decades and decades of grudges bubbling under that bitter exterior; but that also means decades of development to get him to that level of douchbaggery that just dampens any level of imagination and thus empathy (and racism/classism benefits greatly from a lack of empathy). The Doctor notes that he's incredibly unique in that his lack of imagination means he's too stiff for psychic paper, something that's never happened before.

Now, I don't remember much about what I wrote about the episode weeks ago, but I appreciate that the show depicted that endings don't always fix things. The Doctor said as much when he made his observation that those who deserve to live don't always get it. And there's nothing to indicate that Fenton was fundamentally changed for the better from the adventure, unlike Rigsy whom the Doctor predicts a bright future, and the train conductor who's just happy to be alive (I love how Fenton just nonchalantly ties his boots in the end, not even dwelling for a moment what he just went through). And that's the complexity of reality. We live in a world where -isms don't need to be blatant, and are often very much subtle and thus "acceptable," making them insidious -- one of the biggest problems of "I don't see color" is that it fails to take into account the historical nature of racism, while simultaneously trying to sweep those present institutional, systemic problems under the rug, so there's a bit of erasure there in the name of conformity, and Fenton clearly adheres to a very strict definition of conformity. It also tries to dismiss accusations of racism from people who experience racism on a daily basis, whether blatant or through microaggressions. Lastly, it tries to suppress difference when differences could be positively celebrated, but consider: Fenton's big concern is cleanup and erasure and uniformity, but Rigsy's unconventional skills and his imagination ultimately help save the day. Imagining everyone as the same and equal and just like each other is not the same as imagining everyone with equal rights but the freedom to be different to add positive variety to the fabric of society. To me, that comparison could very much act as a legitimate analogy with a deeper social viewing.

Though, I will readily admit that there isn't much in dialogue per se for Fenton and the show rarely delves into social commentary, but rather I'm mining much of this from the strength of Fairbanks' acting. Fenton's an archetype yes, but Fairbanks, I think, imbues the character with a good deal of nuance and enough of a personal motivation that makes all this hypothesizing possible in the first place. If Fenton was played as just a generic grumpy guy, it'd be easy to write him off as a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, aimless and just pissing on everyone because he has a chip on his shoulder. But the way Fairbanks sneers at Rigsy and properly times his disgust is really intentional, so that Rigsy's not just a focal point, but a way to read Fenton. And there's a great deal of credit here that I'm placing in Jamie Mathieson for making all these choices that he did; the setting, the graffiti, the characters were all carefully chosen. Why they were chosen, only Mathieson can explain, but they're all deliberate.

As to your last item, Rigsy impressed the Doctor (not an easy thing to do), and the train conductor was a jovial but otherwise innocent bystander caught up in the events, the type of person that the Doctor saves all the time. And the Doctor postulating that Fenton didn't deserve to be saved is pretty damning considering that in the past he offered to save the likes of Davros and the Master; but they're important whereas Fenton is not only evil and unimaginative, but also unimportant (and that his bitterness makes him even less important), not worth the effort of saving. To the Doctor, Rigsy and the conductor were worth saving, but Fenton was an unfortunate and unintentional save.

I'll point you to a line spoken by the 11th Doctor in his first Christmas special, A Christmas Carol. There, Kazdan, the Scrooge type fella, said that this person was 'no one important' and suddenly, the Doctor rushes over to him, is all action, and serious, saying 'Never in my life have I met anyone unimportant before', meaning that even Fenton here would be important, and matter.

Ha ha! Memory paid off!

Yes, possibly, about a lot of that, but I'm not dismissing the harm, or saying it's good/okay - but sure, if that's the way he is, it might not be a racist thing, or a classist thing, I mean. That's what I mean. Fenton is who he is, that's all, it doesn't mean specific discrimination factors into it, you see.

[Spike-X]

It would surprise me greatly if a character like that wasn't grossly racist.

[Anthony Shaw]

LOL, Some of these posts are crazy and over analogizing as is to be expected.

I loved it, looking forward to next week to see the latest showdown between The Doctor and The Master and to see what Clara's future is after it is all said and done. Gonna hate when Jenna leaves.

I feel the same way you do.

I enjoyed the episode.

[Anthony Shaw]

Trailer for the next episode.

Looks a bit bombastic, which always worries me when it comes to Doctor Who finales, but I can't wait.

I love bombastic Who, so I am good with it.

[fmvgamer]

So if missy planned all along for the impossible girl clara to be the companion and save the doctor , why didn't clara recognise her as the person who gave her the number which led her to call the doctor in the tardis phone in the first place ?

[Jim Kelly]

Oh no you don't. I've learned my lesson and I won't click that trailer until AFTER the next show. But if you're like me and you've been kept up late at night with that ear worm from "Mummy on the Orient Express"--wishing you could hear the whole thing--relief is at hand as you can hear the cover of Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now" by Foxes here (with some fun 12th Doctor and Clara moments to boot):

[Jim Kelly]

And also the behind the scenes with Foxes:

[Cyke]

I'll point you to a line spoken by the 11th Doctor in his first Christmas special, A Christmas Carol. There, Kazdan, the Scrooge type fella, said that this person was 'no one important' and suddenly, the Doctor rushes over to him, is all action, and serious, saying 'Never in my life have I met anyone unimportant before', meaning that even Fenton here would be important, and matter.

Ha ha! Memory paid off!

Sure, he's said things like that, but not in this particular context. Indeed, the show's been occasionally hailed for having a great deal of diversity without making it ABOUT diversity, but in this particular case, there's a clear urban intent in there. Otherwise, the episode could've been set elsewhere, or in a different time altogether. And it's quite clear that the Doctor would have preferred to save anyone else in that adventure over Fenton. But who else could the Doctor have referred to when saying that line? Not the train conductor who clearly appreciated life (he kissed the ground), and certainly not Rigsy who saved the day. The only one who was an antagonist other than the aliens was Fenton, and he kept unnecessarily impeding the group (indeed, if they had listened to him, they would have died several times over).

Yes, possibly, about a lot of that, but I'm not dismissing the harm, or saying it's good/okay - but sure, if that's the way he is, it might not be a racist thing, or a classist thing, I mean. That's what I mean. Fenton is who he is, that's all, it doesn't mean specific discrimination factors into it, you see.

He's outright clear that he discriminates, the only question here is how he's discriminating. But I feel like you're assuming that one must be actively racist/classist in order to exhibit those behaviors, but in reality, a great chunk of discriminatory practices come subliminally or covertly without really acting upon it or therefore even being aware of it (i.e. imagining a group of black characters but making them in violent or service roles without giving it much thought, expansion, or reason -- that's not active racism nor does the writer intend any harm, but that's racism that's influenced and ingrained from years of media exposure) . Conversely, there's a difference between non-racist and anti-racist, in that the latter depends on action to combat racism.

But then another question comes up: why this need to defend Fenton? If he is who he is, and he's a racist (and I admit that's an if), then that's a part of the character. But trying to handwave discrimination misses the point of why the character was written the way he was. And in effect, that IS dismissing the harm, without really trying to look into how or why he's gotten to that point. He was purposely written and outright stated to be unimaginative, discriminatory, and unimportant, a guy who wasted his life.

Here's the dialogue

Doctor to Clara: A lot of people died.
Fenton: (interrupting) It was forest fire wasn't it? When the objective was to save the great trees, not the brushwood, am I right?
Doctor: It wasn't a fire and those weren't trees, those were people.
Fenton: They were community payback scumbugs! I wouldn't lose any sleep.
Doctor: I bet you won't.
Fenton: Good to be alive, though. Thank you! Seriously, thank you!

Doctor to Clara: Yes, a lot of people died and maybe the wrong people survived.

---

I don't know about you, but Fenton's clearly discriminating (equating people of a particular type to objects) and the Doctor blatantly implies that he would have preferred to save anyone but Fenton for that episode. To try to defend or handwave Fenton after he says that is mere superficial harm reduction, nothing more; conversely, to say that kind of discrimination doesn't exist despite it happening in front of our heroes increases harm because it excuses it and gives it permission to go on without being called out -- and Fenton doesn't like being called out, as Clara found out.

Lastly, nobody ever becomes "that's the way he is" overnight, no matter what "that" means. Everyone -- the Doctor much moreso than others -- are the sum of their experiences. You could take the nicest guy in the world or the worst bully to ever exist, but they didn't just wake up and make those decisions; both of them are products from years and years of choices, experiences, and world views. (the same with racism and classism -- nobody is racist/classist by default; those behaviors are learned and developed and, depending on the environment, nurtured. And with Fenton's age, he's had plenty of time to let that chip on his shoulder grow and grow. A younger character like that wealthy d-bag in Voyage of the Damned at least showed some kind of concern and humanity by the end. Fenton stubbornly sticks to his inhumanity.)

It would surprise me greatly if a character like that wasn't grossly racist.

Right. We've seen Fentons in the real world and in other shows/movies, which is how I'm making these educated guesses and how I read the character. It's an archetype that's established because these experiences are so common.

And also the behind the scenes with Foxes:

This is just my personal taste: while I thought her singing was fine, for the scant few seconds that she was on screen, I was really irked by how she came across, like she was sleepy and couldn't wait to get out. But I don't know if that was her personal dance or the direction or the editing. Maybe it was that her eyes were pointed down to the floor. It's a small complaint, but I've watched the episode twice now, and the second time I fast-forwarded

The music video you posted up though was fun, though. Thanks for the find!

[Enigmatic Undead]

[Jim Kelly]

Interesting factoid. Rachel Talalay who directed Dark Water/Death in Heaven is also a professor in the Film & Theatre department at the University of British Columbia. I happened to turn on the local Vancouver CBC radio station this morning and heard her interview on getting a chance to direct DOCTOR WHO.

[drwho]

Its nuts that you cant find spoilers anywhere for the finale episode. BBc have really been able to keep it under wraps.

[Jim Kelly]

This is just my personal taste: while I thought her singing was fine, for the scant few seconds that she was on screen, I was really irked by how she came across, like she was sleepy and couldn't wait to get out. But I don't know if that was her personal dance or the direction or the editing. Maybe it was that her eyes were pointed down to the floor. It's a small complaint, but I've watched the episode twice now, and the second time I fast-forwarded

The music video you posted up though was fun, though. Thanks for the find!

I think it was a decision of direction and editing. There's another video on youtube that shows just the singing on the Orient Express, absent of all the other distractions. I think she's meant to be uninvolved and in her own world. Just part of the wall paper. Which is typical of singers in many lounges, who are not supposed to provide anything but background for the guests. And it gives that drowsy 1920s feeling--while at the same time presenting yet another anachronism.

But it's not given attentiion, which is why it's distracting. So that can be annoying. But I have to say I like the annoying things. Where you can just see something else happening in a background or hear something else. And that's an intentional style choice. I relate it to how Popeye would mutter things under his breath and you'd have to strain to hear what he was saying and you could never quite catch all of it.

But it's the irritating ear-worm aspect of it that woke me out of my sleep to search on line for that fun music video.

As to the song itself. Who is Freddy Mercury in the song--the Doctor or Clara? I mean, who like Freddy is saying, "Don't stop me now. I'm having such a good time." It could be the Doctor, because Clara is going to leave and he doesn't want her to leave. Or it could be Clara who is having a ball and doesn't want to go, but feels like she's being forced to go.

[Kyer]

Major luck out! Home just in time.

[Matt]

That was, for the most part, mediocre with flashes of greatness mixed in.
The Doctor was far too passive, as someone has already noted, and essentially did nothing throughout the story.
What about the rest of the Doctor's previous companions who have died on Earth? Victoria Waterfield? Sarah Jane? Harry Sullivan? etc. Did they all get cyberised as well? Did they pull a Brigadier and there's now a squad of justice serving Cybermen zooming about? How far back did Missy go? Is there now an AdricBot hanging about being useless?

Keeping the BrigBot around is a poor move, and I feel a bit disrespectful to the character of the Brigadier. If they had the BrigBot appear and, over riding cyber control, save Katie and help out to the point where he/it blasts Missy ... and then shuts down (moving on) with the last act being he and the Doctor saluting each other. Yeah, that would have been better.
That and any sort of Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart not having the trademark voice and moustache is just PLAIN WRONG.

Has the show forgotten about the TARDIS door open finger clicking thing? I thought it'd been passed over in the last episode because it was a dream/hallucination but it'd have been really handy in this ep when the Doctor was doing his free-fall thing.

[Xalfrea]

Not quite sure how to feel about the finale. I enjoyed it certainly, but there are parts I'm not sure of.

But as for my thoughts on Series 8 as a whole now that it's wrapped up? I know how many people are very critical of this season, and maybe I'm just biased because Series 8 was my very first series, but I really enjoyed it. It had some good episodes and some pretty OK episodes. None of them I felt was bad (In the Forest of the Night was pretty close though).