Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[Spike-X]

Am I the only one who found it funny that the

spoilers:

40/50 something fat guy got offed and everyone else made it?

end of spoilers

It was evident fairly early on that he was going to be The One Who Didn't Make It Out Alive. What did you find funny about it?

[Kyer]

It was evident fairly early on that he was going to be The One Who Didn't Make It Out Alive. What did you find funny about it?

I'm curious about this myself. Was happy to see one of Patrick's sons in action and he's the only one to die. Didn't find that humorous at all.
Did feel for the one who made it only to discover that (possibly) her real world situation was rather...a downer. (Not a swipe at the physically challenged, but you have to admit that was not a reality anyone would have been pleased to discover.

Discussion of plot elements beyond this point:

I'm a bit confused. Just how did these things get to Earth? Are there supposed to be more (oh dear god...a possible sequel down the line. Yippee.)

Since these things were doing what they were doing, how come I still didn't see any evidence of it on The Doctor or Clara's noggins?
Also--with that--does this mean that they'll have some sort of manifested brain damage...mainly in Clara? Alzheimer's? Memory problems? Nervous system ailments? Alien germs introduced via the stab wound?

[Cyke]

Anyone else think Nick Frost was channeling Ricky Gervais? I had to double check to see who was actually playing Santa.

Hah, glad you mentioned it. I got the same vibe, too. Must be because Gervais tends to play bosses and manipulators (no matter how ineffective they are), and Santa's a boss.

Well, I hoped I was going to enjoy it. But I didn't.
The clash of tones between horror and kitsch really didn't work. The script seemed very disjointed, lurching from idea to idea with nothing to really link anything togther.

It really does force me to ask, when was the last time a Doctor Who Christmas Special was really good? Maybe the introduction of Tennant's Doctor?

I liked this one better than most, but frankly, I just don't enjoy the Christmas specials, finding them too kitschy in general. They tend to be among my least prioritized episodes.

I appreciated that this episode was a bit smaller stakes -- even with the dream setting, it was still focused on a small, core cast, which helped flesh out the secondary cast. Santa vs. the Doctor argument was nice. The return of Danny was a nice touch, even though his sacrifice -- or even how his dream self worked -- didn't make much sense.

Still though, I feel like most of the regular season 8 episodes hooked me more.

Would you not agree that, if not The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe, The Snowmen or The Time of the Doctor, at least A Christmas Carol was a classic DW Xmas special?

That's a pretty heavy leading question, since we know the answer that you're trying to get to.

But I'll add, I thought the Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe fell apart rapidly once the nature of the trees was explained, and undermined the episode by the end. The Snowmen and put me to sleep (literally), and A Christmas Carol made me fall asleep even faster. Time of the Doctor wasn't bad, but it's best when taken into context with the other other episodes of the series (Name, Night, Day of the Doctor) since it's a necessary component; on its own, it seemed to be overwhelmed by the need to balance whimsy (the town of Christmas, the Doctor's age), the necessary (transitioning from Smith to Capaldi, defining the nature of the Doctor), and the fanwank (all these factions, the Silence vs. the Daleks, the faux-River Song). I believe Last Christmas does a better job of working as a self-contained Christmas story more than Time of the Doctor.

I'm not sure how I would rank the Christmas specials overall, but compared to regular episodes they generally fall flat for me. Runaway Bride and Voyage of the Damned worked for the most part for me. End of Time made things almost *too* urgent and frantic. I loved the first half of the Next Doctor, but I rapidly began to lose interest when the "Cyberlady's" real plot was revealed. And as others have said before, Christmas Invasion could have been good, but needed more Doctor.

To each their own, however.

----

Lastly...

THE DOCTOR AND CLARA WILL RETURN IN THUNDERBALL

[Spike-X]

Indeed, Jenna Coleman has signed on for another year.

[Crimson Knight]

Hah, glad you mentioned it. I got the same vibe, too. Must be because Gervais tends to play bosses and manipulators (no matter how ineffective they are), and Santa's a boss.



I liked this one better than most, but frankly, I just don't enjoy the Christmas specials, finding them too kitschy in general. They tend to be among my least prioritized episodes.

I appreciated that this episode was a bit smaller stakes -- even with the dream setting, it was still focused on a small, core cast, which helped flesh out the secondary cast. Santa vs. the Doctor argument was nice. The return of Danny was a nice touch, even though his sacrifice -- or even how his dream self worked -- didn't make much sense.

Still though, I feel like most of the regular season 8 episodes hooked me more.



That's a pretty heavy leading question, since we know the answer that you're trying to get to.

But I'll add, I thought the Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe fell apart rapidly once the nature of the trees was explained, and undermined the episode by the end. The Snowmen and put me to sleep (literally), and A Christmas Carol made me fall asleep even faster. Time of the Doctor wasn't bad, but it's best when taken into context with the other other episodes of the series (Name, Night, Day of the Doctor) since it's a necessary component; on its own, it seemed to be overwhelmed by the need to balance whimsy (the town of Christmas, the Doctor's age), the necessary (transitioning from Smith to Capaldi, defining the nature of the Doctor), and the fanwank (all these factions, the Silence vs. the Daleks, the faux-River Song). I believe Last Christmas does a better job of working as a self-contained Christmas story more than Time of the Doctor.

I'm not sure how I would rank the Christmas specials overall, but compared to regular episodes they generally fall flat for me. Runaway Bride and Voyage of the Damned worked for the most part for me. End of Time made things almost *too* urgent and frantic. I loved the first half of the Next Doctor, but I rapidly began to lose interest when the "Cyberlady's" real plot was revealed. And as others have said before, Christmas Invasion could have been good, but needed more Doctor.

To each their own, however.

----

Lastly...

Is that Thunderball thing from Last Christmas, or you poking a joke with Bond, or them?

Far as I know, The Magicians' Apprentice is the Season 9 premiere title.

[Guest_1001]

Well, I hoped I was going to enjoy it. But I didn't.
The clash of tones between horror and kitsch really didn't work. The script seemed very disjointed, lurching from idea to idea with nothing to really link anything togther.

It really does force me to ask, when was the last time a Doctor Who Christmas Special was really good? Maybe the introduction of Tennant's Doctor?

Actually, up until this episode, I thought the only good Christmas Special was "A Christmas Carol". That episode was 10/10 for me. "Last Christmas" is closer to a 9/10.

Am I the only one who found it funny that the

spoilers:

40/50 something fat guy got offed and everyone else made it?

end of spoilers

And this is why I thought it was a 9/10.

spoilers:

It's one thing to kill the only male character in the group but it's another to portray the only human male character as useless, gluttonous and disgusting (nostril hairs, the way he ate the turkey). When Shona mentioned that he touched her leg, the other women reacted as if he'd sexually assaulted her.

end of spoilers

Apart from that, I thought it was excellent. Clever ideas, scary monsters, funny writing and Shona was a great character. I like Moffat more than RTD but I admit his female characters are usually lousy. They're all pidgeonholed into a generic "strong independent woman" archetype with "feisty" dialogue and one-liners. Shona didn't fit that mould and she was much better because of it.

[Spike-X]

When Shona mentioned that he touched her leg, the other women reacted as if he'd sexually assaulted her.

No, they reacted like a creepy bloke twice her age had made an unwelcome sexual advance towards her.

[Guest_1001]

No, they reacted like a creepy bloke twice her age had made an unwelcome sexual advance towards her.

But he didn't. He said he was comforting her. What did he do to get the reputation of being "creepy" and how is touching someone's leg when they're about to put their lives at risk a sexual advance?

[Kyer]

But he didn't. He said he was comforting her. What did he do to get the reputation of being "creepy" and how is touching someone's leg when they're about to put their lives at risk a sexual advance?

It would kind of depend on 'how' and 'where' he touched her leg. Grab versus a quick pat? Inner thigh versus the knee?
I'm female and don't particular like being touched at all by even close family, but if someone patted me on the shoulder or the knee (while we were sitting) I'd hardly get all violent about it unless there were other signs that he or she was going over the line...like leering while doing the pat. Sometimes a quick touch is not intended to be taken as anything lewd. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see the scene first-hand so it's all hearsay and others conceptions of it.

[Cyke]

Is that Thunderball thing from Last Christmas, or you poking a joke with Bond, or them?

Far as I know, The Magicians' Apprentice is the Season 9 premiere title.

Relax, it's a joke. It's a dig at the end announcement during the episode credits, which is similar to how James Bond movies used to end their credits with specific titles. Guardians of the Galaxy reminded me of that joke, as do several other examples. Other movies and shows finish their credits with some grand announcement that include their title.

Even MST3K did it (time stamp should be 9:48): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajMQ6Q3-6s#t=9m48s

It would kind of depend on 'how' and 'where' he touched her leg. Grab versus a quick pat? Inner thigh versus the knee?
I'm female and don't particular like being touched at all by even close family, but if someone patted me on the shoulder or the knee (while we were sitting) I'd hardly get all violent about it unless there were other signs that he or she was going over the line...like leering while doing the pat. Sometimes a quick touch is not intended to be taken as anything lewd. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see the scene first-hand so it's all hearsay and others conceptions of it.

Not to defend creepy behavior, but I think some of it is mitigated by the revelation that it was all a dream, too, and that almost everyone was adding to the dream involuntarily (or rather that no one had much control about what happened in the dream subconsciously until they realized that they could).

But with that said, nothing wrong with the guy getting called out either, I should think.

[Spike-X]

But he didn't. He said he was comforting her.

Well, if he said he wasn't hitting on her, then we should obviously take his word for it. Because nobody's ever done that kind of thing then tried to back-pedal out of it afterwards.

What did he do to get the reputation of being "creepy"

He made an unwanted sexual advance towards somebody half his age, for a start.

and how is touching someone's leg when they're about to put their lives at risk a sexual advance?

If I have to explain it...

[Guest_1001]

Well, if he said he wasn't hitting on her, then we should obviously take his word for it. Because nobody's ever done that kind of thing then tried to back-pedal out of it afterwards.

There's this funny thing called "innocent until proven guilty" ...

He made an unwanted sexual advance towards somebody half his age, for a start.

If I have to explain it...

... And even if "innocent until proven guilty" didn't exist, touching someone on the leg is not something that would cause most rational people to scream "sexual advance".

It would kind of depend on 'how' and 'where' he touched her leg. Grab versus a quick pat? Inner thigh versus the knee?
I'm female and don't particular like being touched at all by even close family, but if someone patted me on the shoulder or the knee (while we were sitting) I'd hardly get all violent about it unless there were other signs that he or she was going over the line...like leering while doing the pat. Sometimes a quick touch is not intended to be taken as anything lewd. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see the scene first-hand so it's all hearsay and others conceptions of it.

I think you've got the right idea. I mean, I'm not one for physical contact but I've had people touch my knee and I haven't immediately leapt to the conclusion that they must be getting off on it, as the characters in the episode did.

[Spike-X]

Okay .

[Django P]

2015 series air date, anyone?

[Kyer]

2015 series air date, anyone?

They didn't say and probably is fluid anyway.

Figure any date given this early should be trusted like one should trust The Doctor's ability to steer the TARDIS.
(Keep an open mind but hang onto something.)