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  1. #571

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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Yeah and I mentioned it earlier that it's ultimately up to Marvel to deal with this and if they feel there's nothing for Cebulski to answer then one just has to move on.
    It's also OK to pettily mock him for it, though, right?

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    It's also OK to pettily mock him for it, though, right?
    Oh absolutely.

    Like I said earlier, what he did would get him fired in most places and not a promotion.

    What he did was incredibly douchey.
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  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't need to go court.

    Not everythin that isn't defendable in court is false.

    Not to mention that things like this are nigh impossible to prove in a court of law.

    But I'm not going to have a discussion about the disadvantages that minorities face in the US. One only needs to peruse minority media and tons of academic studies. Not to mention there are creators on this board that could provide anecdotal evidence. It's a dead end discussion that's only bein discussed because lots of young white men are bring "radicalised" by the far right.
    but Tiammaty wrote that this is not only in US but in all countries where majority of population is white.
    then can You explain to me one thing?
    Why do You think that black and asian people are going to live in countries where majority of population is racist? and they can't have a job?
    Do You think that they are stupid?
    One only needs to peruse minority media and tons of academic studies.
    I have read some studies but I couldn't find any proof that there is institunional racism in US or Europe.
    Not to mention there are creators on this board that could provide anecdotal evidence.
    and there is a lot of black actors and musicans who don't believe that people are racists.
    I also can show You many recist post of users rom this forum.
    and they are black or masochists
    here some users tried to convince me that black race is superior to white.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    but Tiammaty wrote that this is not only in US but in all countries where majority of population is white.
    then can You explain to me one thing?
    Why do You think that black and asian people are going to live in countries where majority of population is racist? and they can't have a job?
    Do You think that they are stupid?

    I have read some studies but I couldn't find any proof that there is institunional racism in US or Europe.

    and there is a lot of black actors and musicans who don't believe that people are racists.
    I also can show You many recist post of users rom this forum.
    and they are black or masochists
    here some users tried to convince me that black race is superior to white.
    Lol...what?

    I seriously doubt you've actually read anything on US history. Note, I didn't say Black history, I'm talking American history.

    But I can help.

    https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www....sm-america.amp

    Like I said earlier, this is a dead end discussion.
    Let's just move on.
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  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't need to go court.

    Not everythin that isn't defendable in court is false.

    Not to mention that things like this are nigh impossible to prove in a court of law.

    But I'm not going to have a discussion about the disadvantages that minorities face in the US. One only needs to peruse minority media and tons of academic studies. Not to mention there are creators on this board that could provide anecdotal evidence. It's a dead end discussion that's only bein discussed because lots of young white men are bring "radicalised" by the far right.
    You're right it is (sort of) a dead end. Liberals will continually deny any type of discrimination towards white people (also i'm not saying that they are discriminated on more or as much as POCs), while Cons will continually deny any sort of discrimination happening to minorities. I'm at least willing to see that there is discrimination, everywhere...but like not in as dramatically high volumes as everyone thinks. I think if more of these discussions were laced with science and facts and less 'feels' that they would be less of a dead-end, but facts are an ever-changing variable in this day and age right? Like how the professors at universities can distort facts anytime in order to maintain their narrative, perpetuate the victim mentality, and reinforce racial disharmony in the never-ending cycle of hate. So I guess it is a dead-end discussion unless you're privy to one of the many elite universities or just have access to a tumblr account, the facts and rules change all of the time to fit the changeling narrative so really it does not have to be a dead-end.

    EDIT: Also I don't know where this last part is coming from, is Cebulski or a majority of Marvel nazi-sympathizers? Or was this just a strawman?
    Last edited by Spiderfang; 12-01-2017 at 03:07 AM.
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  6. #576
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    Spiderfang :
    I'm at least willing to see that there is discrimination, everywhere...but like not in as dramatically high volumes as everyone thinks.
    true
    I would say this is rare

    but it is sad that so many people don't remember that western countries are usally good.
    I don't think that laws in arabic countries are better.
    I don't think that african countries in africa are so incredible.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfang View Post
    You're right it is (sort of) a dead end. Liberals will continually deny any type of discrimination towards white people (also i'm not saying that they are discriminated on more or as much as POCs), while Cons will continually deny any sort of discrimination happening to minorities. I'm at least willing to see that there is discrimination, everywhere...but like not in as dramatically high volumes as everyone thinks. I think if more of these discussions were laced with science and facts and less 'feels' that they would be less of a dead-end, but facts are an ever-changing variable in this day and age right? Like how the professors at universities can distort facts anytime in order to maintain their narrative, perpetuate the victim mentality, and reinforce racial disharmony in the never-ending cycle of hate. So I guess it is a dead-end discussion unless you're privy to one of the many elite universities or just have access to a tumblr account, the facts and rules change all of the time to fit the changeling narrative so really it does not have to be a dead-end.

    EDIT: Also I don't know where this last part is coming from, is Cebulski or a majority of Marvel nazi-sympathizers? Or was this just a strawman?
    I don’t see issues of discrimination as conservative or liberal. On that we agree. However, I can never ever agree that majority straight white people face the same level of discrimination as LGBT and minorities. That’s just false.

    The last part, the radicalization of white men is something that’s just now being identified and discussed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tics-breitbart

    You might not agree with everything in the article but there’s a lot of anger towards minority and female rights at the moment. We see a lot of it on online forums. Sure there’s a backlash against “outrage PC culture (a lot of those Twitter and tumblr people are woefully misguided) but a lot of young guys don’t know where to draw the line (the tragedy is the guys that feel like this fail to realize they are closer to the radical Islamists they so abhorre).
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don’t see issues of discrimination as conservative or liberal. On that we agree. However, I can never ever agree that majority straight white people face the same level of discrimination as LGBT and minorities. That’s just false.

    The last part, the radicalization of white men is something that’s just now being identified and discussed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tics-breitbart

    You might not agree with everything in the article but there’s a lot of anger towards minority and female rights at the moment. We see a lot of it on online forums. Sure there’s a backlash against “outrage PC culture (a lot of those Twitter and tumblr people are woefully misguided) but a lot of young guys don’t know where to draw the line (the tragedy is the guys that feel like this fail to realize they are closer to the radical Islamists they so abhorre).
    I wish there was a "like" option on this site and yes we're on the same page as far as straight white folk go absolutely, pretty much cream of the crop as long as they don't look too or have too foreign-y sounding names..but yea you're right. Yea I have noticed an increase of "un-pc" (as they call it) behavior from various online venues (I thought you were referring to Marvel or this thread in general so I apologize for my daftness) where random users would refer to groups of people they disliked with derogatory terms with impunity, and when questioned (i.e. called out) on it they would claim the age old excuse "no I don't hate xx people, my cousin is xx" or "it's just a joke." So yea I can definitely get where you're coming from now (thanks for the link btw).
    Last edited by Spiderfang; 12-01-2017 at 04:21 AM.
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  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don’t see issues of discrimination as conservative or liberal. On that we agree. However, I can never ever agree that majority straight white people face the same level of discrimination as LGBT and minorities. That’s just false.

    The last part, the radicalization of white men is something that’s just now being identified and discussed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tics-breitbart

    You might not agree with everything in the article but there’s a lot of anger towards minority and female rights at the moment. We see a lot of it on online forums. Sure there’s a backlash against “outrage PC culture (a lot of those Twitter and tumblr people are woefully misguided) but a lot of young guys don’t know where to draw the line (the tragedy is the guys that feel like this fail to realize they are closer to the radical Islamists they so abhorre).
    why we have radicalization of white men right now?
    Do You have any ideas?
    However, I can never ever agree that majority straight white people face the same level of discrimination as LGBT and minorities. That’s just false.
    I don't know where You live but i sometimes think: maybe I should become a gay?
    this is rational decision (the laws to protect people who are not white men are strong).
    better support from goverment would also be helpful.

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Boat View Post
    Lying about having been in the military is a whole different ballgame than having a different name to use as writer! lol

    Cause it may causes lives. Can't you guys see the difference? Christ.
    I can't follow why lying about having been in the military would cause (cost?) lives?
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  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I can't follow why lying about having been in the military would cause (cost?) lives?
    Maybe meaning lying about having experience in order to get in? Though that makes little sense, the military weeds out the weakest fairly quickly so that theory doesn't hold water...
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  12. #582
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    That doesn't even feel analogous. Stolen Valor at least feels in the ballpark and I would think is a useful analogy for why what Cebulski did is problematic.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

    I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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  13. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Exactly. Surprised this hasn't come up because unless they paid him cash in an envelope (which hasn't been done in years in big companies) they have to have your SSN for taxes and whatnot. One of the first jobs I had still had a payroll window where you got your cash out of the till plus your payroll statement
    It's probably why Marvel was "ok" with it because on some level they had to know. The wiki on the Elektra: The Hand even said that Cebulski suggested the artist to the writer & editor for the series. AND it was based on an idea he originally submitted and was rejected. They had to know on some level that it was him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post

    IT! IS! NOT! THE! SAME! FRIGGING! THING.It's not. It's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not .It is, in no way, even remotely the same thing.
    Do you know why women use male pen names? Or why people of colour use Anglicized pen/stage names? Because Western entertainment is awful. Because female writers still get less respect and have more trouble getting published in the majority of genres. People with "ethnic" names are less likely to get hired. There are countless stories out there about this shit.

    IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. No one gets rejected for having a white dude name. It doesn't happen. But having a female name? Having an "ethnic" name? People get rejected with those names all the time.The very idea of comparing a guy who was already getting consistent work in the industry to someone who has to make the difficult decision to use a name that hides who they are because their real name makes it more difficult for them to get work is balls-out goddamn stupid. I'm not going to sugar-coat this: It is a stupid comparison. It is incredibly stupid, and it comes from a place of not giving a single wet hot shit about the struggles that other people have to go through to have careers in fields they love. It pretends that the world is a total meritocracy and no one ever faces any obstacles based on gender or race or anything else, and it is one of the stupidest things in the world.

    Holy shit.
    Pretending to be someone else to get published...regardless of who you're pretending to be is the same thing. You're arguing far more beyond than the basic: he lied to get published. And that's all this is.

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    It's probably why Marvel was "ok" with it because on some level they had to know. The wiki on the Elektra: The Hand even said that Cebulski suggested the artist to the writer & editor for the series. AND it was based on an idea he originally submitted and was rejected. They had to know on some level that it was him.



    Pretending to be someone else to get published...regardless of who you're pretending to be is the same thing. You're arguing far more beyond than the basic: he lied to get published. And that's all this is.
    Not buying the part about a woman not getting published just by going by their name either. I think that sometimes that may have been done for the benefit of the purchaser. Take the case of D.C. Fontana or Dorothy Catherine Fontana. She always used D.C. Fontana and wrote scripts for a number of genres in TV, Bonanza, Ben Casey, The Waltons, etc. But most people know her from her days working on Star Trek. She is primarily credited with developing Spock's backstory with episodes like Journey to Babel. Gene knew she was a woman since she also worked for a while as his production secretary on the show and was there when the show's "bible" was being developed.

    But we don't even have consider how some women have disguised their names. The names like Agatha Christie, Margaret Mitchell, Daphne Du Maurier, Anne Rice, Margaret Atwood etc certainly didn't stop people from buying their books. Or Sara Paretsky’s popular series of crime novels. Most of the time people think of women writing things in the romance novel genre but there are quite a few in the crime novel genre. You have to look beyond the realm of the comic book sometimes

  15. #585
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    On the pen name thing.... Franklin W Dixon ... the name on every Hardy Boy book, does not exist. They were all ghost writers paid to write these books. Multiple ghost writers. Youngin me did not know that. I thought Franklin W Dixon was the greatest writer ever. :-) Imagine adult me finding on the internet back in it's infancy that was not the case.

    Maybe it was because these writers couldn't get published otherwise. Maybe the publisher wanted it this way for whatever reason. (I do believe Nancy Drew was the same way.) Either way I don't think it takes anything from the books (that I still own and read) and as far as the information I read, all the writers knew this up front and got paid. So I guess what I am getting at is I am completely baffled how this is a big deal other than wanting to take a pot shot at CB.

    Edit: Heinrich Karl Bukowski better known as Charles Bukowski a white straight male changed his name for fear his German first name wouldn't get him published. And even at that, outside his writing, it went by Henry. He did eventually get published, as we should all be thankful for. Yeah this is just one case, but there's lots more than skin color that effects people's perception on things.
    Last edited by bloodofthegods; 12-01-2017 at 08:58 AM.

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