New 52 Continuity Needs to be Explained

[Idio]

With the recent preview for "Robin Rises", it goes over the history of Damien, including Batman's "death" where he's sent back in time. It shows a panel of Bats getting hit by Darkseid's Omega Beams only....Darkseid hasn't appeared again in the universe since the Justice League origin.

Also, I guess that this means that Final Crisis DID in fact happen, even though DC went on record saying none of the Crises did in fact happen. If it did, how was Barry involved, since he didn't die and come back in the New 52? Did he just show up? Should all these stories be retold to figure out how they happened (don't even get me started on how Blackest Night must be different considering not too many people have died in the New 52 yet, and instrumental characters to that plot didn't exist).

I understand that DC wants to have their cake and eat it to, but this all becomes super confusing when a reboot should be anything but.

[GlennSimpson]

With the recent preview for "Robin Rises", it goes over the history of Damien, including Batman's "death" where he's sent back in time. It shows a panel of Bats getting hit by Darkseid's Omega Beams only....Darkseid hasn't appeared again in the universe since the Justice League origin.

Also, I guess that this means that Final Crisis DID in fact happen, even though DC went on record saying none of the Crises did in fact happen. If it did, how was Barry involved, since he didn't die and come back in the New 52? Did he just show up? Should all these stories be retold to figure out how they happened (don't even get me started on how Blackest Night must be different considering not too many people have died in the New 52 yet, and instrumental characters to that plot didn't exist).

I understand that DC wants to have their cake and eat it to, but this all becomes super confusing when a reboot should be anything but.

I believe the best way to look at it is from the perspective of someone who didn't start reading until the new52 happened. I haven't seen the issue in question but based on your description what a new person would know is that at some point in the past there was a fight between Batman and Darkseid where he got zapped and people thought he was dead (or whatever is appropriate for what they show). You might wonder about the details of that but you wouldn't be confused because you wouldn't know that Flash was supposed to be involved or the other things that don't seem to match up for you.

Didio first said the various Crisis didn't happen; but then he came back and said something like them happened, just not exactly as published.

[PyroSikTh]

The "crisis" didn't happen. Darkseid vs Batman did. Nothing in the Robin Rises preview shows any more than Batman's fight with Darkseid and Batman being thrown back through time.

Regarding Blackest Night, it was likely just Scar, Black Hand, Nekron, and a horde of generic Black Lanterns vs the Green Lantern Corps and Justice League. Who those exact zombies were doesn't really matter as the main crux of the event doesn't really rely on that.

So no, New52 continuity doesn't need to be explained, you just need to let go of your need for flawless continuity. If you accept that most major events happened, but happened differently in their most fundamental states, everything fits together fine. Better yet, just enjoy the stories as they are and don't even consider continuity.

[Sirzechs]

Blackest Night happened in a sense like what happened in new 52 Green Lantern with black hand vs Sinestro and Hal it wasn't on a large scale but Batman did die.

[Nite-Wing]

The way DC explained it was that certain characters retained their histories pre flashpoint only having them refreshed post flashpoint
Batman and Green Lantern are the only characters given this explanation

[FishboneX]

The "crisis" didn't happen. Darkseid vs Batman did. Nothing in the Robin Rises preview shows any more than Batman's fight with Darkseid and Batman being thrown back through time.

Regarding Blackest Night, it was likely just Scar, Black Hand, Nekron, and a horde of generic Black Lanterns vs the Green Lantern Corps and Justice League. Who those exact zombies were doesn't really matter as the main crux of the event doesn't really rely on that.

So no, New52 continuity doesn't need to be explained, you just need to let go of your need for flawless continuity. If you accept that most major events happened, but happened differently in their most fundamental states, everything fits together fine. Better yet, just enjoy the stories as they are and don't even consider continuity.

You have expressed exactly how I have approached the relaunch and how I have explained the relaunch. It's only hard to understand if you are looking for a reason to make it hard to never stand. People had no problem accepting 30 years of published comics happening in 5 years until the relaunch.

[colonyofcells]

Continuity tends to change from month to month without any explanation so maybe just get used to it.

[resipsaloquitur]

I think it's like having a videotape of the complete Batman: The Animated Series, but then somebody went and recorded a bunch of Beware the Batman episodes all over it. You've still got bits of what came before, but the end product is...messy, but still with a lot of Batman.

[ReverseReverseFlash]

With the recent preview for "Robin Rises", it goes over the history of Damien, including Batman's "death" where he's sent back in time. It shows a panel of Bats getting hit by Darkseid's Omega Beams only....Darkseid hasn't appeared again in the universe since the Justice League origin.

Also, I guess that this means that Final Crisis DID in fact happen, even though DC went on record saying none of the Crises did in fact happen. If it did, how was Barry involved, since he didn't die and come back in the New 52? Did he just show up? Should all these stories be retold to figure out how they happened (don't even get me started on how Blackest Night must be different considering not too many people have died in the New 52 yet, and instrumental characters to that plot didn't exist).

I understand that DC wants to have their cake and eat it to, but this all becomes super confusing when a reboot should be anything but.

Prologue.

The old DCU is pick and choose prologue, just as the pre-Crisis DCU was to the 90s and 2000s era. They pick what they want to revisit and ignore things that they don't want to use at that time. This is an old habit.

Look at Final Crisis this way. If DC were to adapt it into an Animated movie, they would cut and replace characters, cut entire scenes, make the story smaller, and probably focus it more on Batman. In your head, imagine what that Animated movie would be.

Now make that movie idea into "Final Crisis" in the New 52 timeline. It's the same method. Final Crisis didn't happen, but ideas adapted from Final Crisis exist to provide prologue for current events. So pick out the parts that can't work at all in the current canon(Shazam, Black Adam, universe ending, etc), and hold fast to everything that can(Batman v Darkseid)

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Continuity tends to change from month to month without any explanation so maybe just get used to it.

This. I mean, I can understand why it would bug people when there's an egregious error (hell, it bugs me), but why the hell are people concerned with it to a point where it actually undermines their appreciation of good comics?

[Sacred Knight]

Batman vs. Darkseid happened without Final Crisis happeneing. The same way the destruction of Coast City happened without Reign of the Supermen happening. In both cases, the main consequence happened just in a far more condensced manner without the major tale surrounding it.

And in my mind it doesn't need to be explained in any further detail than that, just so long as future stories don't do anything stupid and try and make more of those original stories fit in than is possible to make work.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Fictional New 52 World: The further we get into it the more it is apparent that most of the major events pre-52 happened in the New 52 timeline, just with a different twist that they could never adequately explain w/o doing the whole storyline over: Superman's Death, Batman's "Death", Sinestro Corps War, Dick Grayson becoming Batman, The Demon stories, Long Halloween, Blackest Night, When in Rome, the original JL stories fighting Amazo, Kanjar Ro, the classic JL chess game, many of the Brainiac stories, on on and on. The high points happened, just in a slightly different way or with a different cast - when it's important they show a flashback.

Real World: DC didn't want to scrap all 75 years of its history. It's almost impossible to build from scratch when people already know the characters. They also want to give people more of a reason to pick up graphic novels. If you think something has bearing on what happens today, even if only the general overall theme, you might be more likely to read it.

So assume that the "big stuff" happened, just not exactly as you read it, but the outcome was largely the same

[FishboneX]

Fictional New 52 World: The further we get into it the more it is apparent that most of the major events pre-52 happened in the New 52 timeline, just with a different twist that they could never adequately explain w/o doing the whole storyline over: Superman's Death, Batman's "Death", Sinestro Corps War, Dick Grayson becoming Batman, The Demon stories, Long Halloween, Blackest Night, When in Rome, the original JL stories fighting Amazo, Kanjar Ro, the classic JL chess game, many of the Brainiac stories, on on and on. The high points happened, just in a slightly different way or with a different cast - when it's important they show a flashback.

Real World: DC didn't want to scrap all 75 years of its history. It's almost impossible to build from scratch when people already know the characters. They also want to give people more of a reason to pick up graphic novels. If you think something has bearing on what happens today, even if only the general overall theme, you might be more likely to read it.

So assume that the "big stuff" happened, just not exactly as you read it, but the outcome was largely the same

well said.

[Lee Stone]

I think it's like having a videotape of the complete Batman: The Animated Series, but then somebody went and recorded a bunch of Beware the Batman episodes all over it. You've still got bits of what came before, but the end product is...messy, but still with a lot of Batman.

Exactly.
LOL.

[zhris]

The "crisis" didn't happen. Darkseid vs Batman did. Nothing in the Robin Rises preview shows any more than Batman's fight with Darkseid and Batman being thrown back through time.

Not trying to fan the flames, but with that rationale, what was the catalyst to cause that fight then? Darkseid isn't exactly a Gotham regular, and Apokolips is just a bit out of Bats' regular patrol route... that's the problem with trying to cherry-pick continuity; you'll end up with lots of dangly bits.