Complete Spoiler-Filled Discussion of Justice League

[manofsteel1979]

I liked this movie... Really liked it. Don't have time to discuss everything I want to atm. But I want to make some Superman related points.

1) if we don't get another solo Superman movie with Henry, I will riot. He's perfect and the very fact he's able to actually speak here for more than a few sentences or words at a time and show more of the guy we saw glimpses of in MOS...It kinda pisses me off that Snyder didn't utilize him better in BvS. I will always think BvS Ultimate Cut is a much better movie than the haters believe, but I'm even more anamant there should have been an MOS 2 that gave us more of this type of Supes and build up his cast and set up Luthor BEFORE BvS. Whomever made the decision to forgo MOS2 in favor of rushing to JL needs to not have a job anymore. If anything killed this universe, it was that honestly.

2)We only see him for like 30 seconds but Jessie Eisenberg's​ Luthor is perfect here. I like the fact that his public unmasking because of the Doomsday incident and his stay in Arkham has transformed him to his "true" self. Again, if JL bombs and we don't get Superman's JL versus Luthor and his Legion of Doom, I'll be pissed off.

[Thomas Crown]

Someone at the Resetera forum claiming to be an "insider" gave a breakdown of what in the film was Snyder and what was Whedon.

- Superman in the cell phone footage is Whedon

- intro with Batman was Whedon, same with Batman in the plane talking to Alfred

- World without Hope montage was Snyder. The Lois bit with the empty bed next to her is actually from a later point in the movie repurposed for this

- Snyder original cut had the World without Hope montage go straight into Batman meeting with Aquaman in the village which went on longer as well. Same with their conversation after as Aquaman swims off

- Deleted Snyder scene with Martha and Lois talking in the apartment.

- Wonder Woman sequence in London is mostly all Snyder but trimmed down as the original had her taking out all the bad guys and additional slow-mo. Snyder loves his close up to convey information as there's a close up of the lead bad guy changing the gun from single to automatic mode after Wonder Woman stops the first bullet. Reshoots did add dialogue between Wonder Woman and lead bad guy before she stops all the bullets. This reshoot had everything finished to get it ready for the movie so I suspect this will be in extended version

- this cuts into the Amazonian which is Snyder and mostly not changed. A scene they removed was an Amazon being turned into a demon during Steppenwolf initial encounter. She kills herself before the transformation finishes. This shot was finished so maybe extended version

- anything with the russian family is Whedon

- Cyborgs dad talking to the janitor at Star Labs was Whedon

- Cyborg intro with his dad is a longer scene as well and Snyder . The scene starts with him looking at the people walking around the streets enjoying their lives as he looks on with envy.

- Wonder Woman meeting up with Batman while he repairs the jet was Snyder, them discussing the nature of the motherboxes on the Lake was Whedon.

- Thousand year battle is mostly the same in Snyder version, there was a back and forth between adding more focus on the Green Lantern or not. Darkseid actually showed up here as a visual stand in for Steppenwolf as one point the model wasn't quite ready yet.

- Flash scene filling out the forms and visiting his dad is Snyder

- Batman meeting Flash was Snyder. Whedon added "people are slow, I'll try to keep up" bit

- Aquaman saving the man out in the sea was originally the end montage footage repurposed to here and it was Snyder. I believe the bits of him dumping the guy at the bar is Snyder as well

- Aquaman coming back as Steppenwolf tries and succeed in taking the motherbox is Snyder still. The only real change up is when Aquaman and Mera have a discussion which again went on longer and was a mix of both Snyder, Whedon and Wan as Aquaman was filming at the time. The discussion between Mera and Aquaman was deleted at some point and I believe someone fought hard for this to come back in the edit which I'm glad they kept in.

- Janitor being taken by the demon is Snyder

- Woman on tv about her missing husband, Lois/Martha at the daily planet is Whedon

- Cyborg calling out to meet Wonder Woman and their meeting on the streets is mostly Snyder. There may be some minor bits with Cyborg as a reshoot but unsure. Alfred line about date night may have been ADR later

- Cyborg dad being kidnapped by demon to Gordon in the station to the gang meeting up on the roof and then heading to the sewers is Snyder but trimmed by a few seconds.

- Wonder Woman talking about "doing this together as a team" and Cyborg "didn't think you were real" were cut

- Flash panicking and Batman encouraging him to save one person is Whedon

- Cyborg saving his dad is mostly the same so Snyder.

- Wonder Woman openly taunts Steppenwolf was cut before shoving him through the wall. The fight is Snyder with added Whedon dialogue as Wonder Woman looks pissed Steppenwolf mentioned his axe having amazon blood on it.

- Flash interrupts Batman as he fights the demons, this is where the dodge sequence occurred and later cut. There was an attempt to keep it in for many versions with even a reshoot element of Flash saying "I thought we were suppose to do this together!" Flash pushing the demon through the wall was later repurposed as Cyborg doing it. Most likely will not be extended version

- I believe Batman yells at Flash to ensure the Star Labs people are out with Cyborgs help as a demon starts to overpower Batman

- Scene with Cyborg getting people out as Flash looks on is cut

- the Flash getting people out one at a time is Whedon as is Cyborg dad explaining to him that they're after the box as Cyborg shoots a demon (repurposed from earlier)

- Batman fighting the demon on the higher level is Snyder with the WW fight still the same.

- Steppenwolf throws WW to the wall and then charges his axe at her which she dodges, this attack causes a chain reaction in which the building starts to crumble on the outside and there's now falling debris which leds towards a cut of the Star Labs people outside with the Flash. He see the debris falling so he uses his speed to punch the debris out of the way from the people but somehow misses the last big piece in which Cyborg shoots it out of the way. This was cut and in the original trailer: https://youtu.be/3cxixDgHUYw?t=47 This sequence had mostly finished VFX but I doubt you will see this in extended

- Batman saying "my turn" is Snyder and is cut replaced with "I didn't bring a sword" and "he's tall" is Whedon.

- Cyborg asking Flash to go check on the others is cut. VFX was finished as well

- Flash helping WW with her sword is Snyder. Face plant joke after is Whedon

- Whedon reshoot of Flash replying with "does he mean me?" when Steppenwolf mentions the Old Gods blood is cut

- WW doing her arm thing, Flash being taken by the demons, Cyborg taking over the vehicle and shooting at Steppenwolf and the flood is Snyder

- Reshot element from Wan of Aquaman emerging from the water to kick Steppenwolf before turning back to try to help slow down the flooding.

- "did he just bail?" is ADR in, not part of Snyder original cut.

- Meeting up with Gordon and Cyborg coming back with the box is Snyder. Some scenes trimmed down

- Steppenwolf speech about finding the last box is mostly the same in Snyder.

- The gang going to the Batcave is Whedon, there was an extended scene with Flash and Alfred and Flash hugs Alfred some reason.

- The gang talking about the nature of the boxes and bringing back Superman is Whedon. Gal was not available during this time as she was doing press tour for Wonder Woman so her double was her stand in and even did some acting and that bit with her hitting Batman. In the wide shots if you look carefully you can still see that it's not Gal. The footage of Gal was shot on a later date with green screen and composited in

- Batman talking to Alfred about Superman was Whedon

- Batman overlooking the ship is Snyder. Batman talking to Wonder Woman about the plan overlooking the kryptonian ship is Whedon

- the Lois shot from earlier in the opening montage movie was a part of this sequence as Alfred attempts to call her as well. Snyder

- break into the kryptonian ship was a longer, Cyborgs dad fakes a code red to get everyone out of the lab so the gang can get in without any major issues. There was some more additional dialogue with Flash and Aquaman. Snyder with a small chance that this may be in the extended

- preparing Superman body for the ship is Snyder.

- deleted scene - Cyborg having a premonition during his countdown. During the count of 'one' he starts to see things of possibly future events such as the end of the League, knightmare world and more importantly Darkseid.

- Superman resurrection and battle with the league members is mostly Snyder with bits trimmed down.

- Flash mentioning "Pet Semetary" is Whedon

- Flash actively tries to kick Superman during their fight which was cut

- Anytime Superman is talking during this is Whedon, even "do you bleed?"

- Batman making a quip about if he's bleeding is Whedon

- Steppenwolf stealing the last box is the same in all versions

- Superman coming home to his farm with Lois is Snyder.

- Gang discussing their plan of attack now is Whedon

- Batman and Wonder Woman talking about leadership and her fixing his arm is all Whedon

- Superman talking about the ring is Snyder and cut. Superman talking to Lois in the field is Whedon. Not sure if Martha showing up to meet her son is Whedon or Snyder

- Steppenwolf preparing the unification is the same in all versions

- Cyborg finding the location is Whedon which leads to the gang getting on the ship is Snyder

- deleted scene of Superman coming back to the kryptonian ship and getting his suit back. VFX was finished so maybe extended version

TO BE CONTINUED IN THE NEXT POST.

[Thomas Crown]

- Aquaman with the lasso of Truth is all Whedon, Gal again wasn't here so body double in the wide shot with Gal elements being shot later

- Batman taking down the shield and the league helping each other out to reach Steppenwolf is Snyder. Close up of Wonder Woman smiling is a Whedon as well Batman making quips during this scene

- Deleted scenes - showing various people around the worlds reacting to the unification process as red skies and lightening start to happen (Martha/Lois, Cyborg Dad, Gordon, Aquaman village at the beginning, london and so forth)

- Trailer scene with Wonder Woman saying "shall we?" with Aquaman and Cyborg was adjusted. "Shall we" was cut and replaced with the new Whedon line

- Cyborg and Flash stuff here is mostly now all Whedon

- Batman telling Flash to get people to safety is Whedon

- lots of Wonder Woman and Aquaman fighting are adjusted or reordered but still Snyder

- Superman coming back is all Whedon. There was a wide shot of Superman during the "I like truth" which was removed but the final edit of how it plays out is better in my opinion

- Superman with the slow mo punch dodge is Snyder. As before anything with Superman talking is Whedon during this finale

- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times

- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon

- there was concept art showing the trinity looking through the end of the boomtube revealing Darkseid. Unsure if this element was ever filmed as the movie itself never had it in any version I saw.

- The slow mo shot of all of them with Flash fist bumping Cyborg is Snyder

- close up with the trinity is three different elements composited together as the actors were not available at the same time.

- the end montage is Snyder (yes, even that weird run Flash does) with Whedon element being Wonder Woman stopping the robbery in London

- Flash doing the race with Superman = Whedon

- Lex discussing forming their own league = Snyder

My main thought which was a better version:

- I believe that Snyder original version was more leading towards a UC style edit like BvS as I felt there was a lot of moments for the movie to breath but with some wtf ness in characters moments (flash basically standing around and doing nothing when he could do stuff) where as I feel Whedon had a lot more character beats and dialogue between them to punch it up.

- I'm not too sure if there will be an extended version but if there was I can easily see an additional 10-20 minutes.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/1089110/

In another post, this same guy said the following about Connor Behrens' claims that Snyder would make Superman to return "evil":

I disagree with the second point as the footage I saw even with how little of Synder was left over I feel didn't paint Superman as "evil".

https://www.resetera.com/posts/1095923/

And just a suggestion: for the sake of your own sanity, don't read the other posts in that thread. That place is toxic!

[Lightning Rider]

Thanks for posting, very interesting read. Whedon changed a lot more than I thought.

[Nomads1]

I can't help notice that the end scene had Lex suggesting a team up with Deathstroke, the Terminator, and now we have abundant rumors that the Rock's Balck Adam will not be in the Shazam movie, but playing opposite to Superman. That makes three of the six Secret Society members accounted for (if rumors of Black Adam prove true). I wonder if they'll go with the Calculator, Dr. Pshyco and Talia Al, Ghul (that last one might answer if this is the same Batman as the Nolan trilogy, for Talia showed up and died in the last film). Or if they'll go with different and more powerful guys (I'm hoping gor this last one). I hope we get Circe.

Peace.

[Jabare]

seriously thanks for sharing this. Just wow


Personally I didn't like the first scene with Batman on the rooftop. It felt out of place the rooftop looked weird and the burglar was weirdly chatty almost like he was talking to the audience to provide exposition and not Batman.

I would have done the Wonder Woman bank scene a little differently. I feel like the terrorists motivations were just confusing, but Wonder Woman had some epic scenes.

The first act felt borderline too rushed. I really wanted an extra 15 or 30 minutes from this movie to help the pace.


Talk the stuff that was cut I really wanted in the film, but if this source is accurate I don't mind most of Whedon's edits. I didn't like the initial Batman rooftop scene but the rest I guess works.


Why DC executives made this a hard two hours I'll never know. I wanted to se Iris West and more Silas Stone.


I loved the first end credit scene. That was great. I didn't like Lex in the second despite the Deathstroke reveal. For the record I was a fan of Lex Luthor in BvS that was inspired casting, but he just came off weird in the cutscene and the whole league dialogue felt forced

[Thomas Crown]

Zack made a cameo as the homeless man in the opening montage:

https://twitter.com/andrewbdyce/stat...11549197832194

[EmrysM]

I like that the consensus here seems to be mostly positive; elsewhere I've been seeing a lot of negativity (including at the cinema I work at where attendance for this film hasnt been the best).

I personally loved it. The characterisation, the relationships between the League. I thought it was all great, with Superman's return and the face-off that followed being one of my particular favourite parts of the film (especially Barry's 'Oh sh#t' moment).

With BvS I bought the Ultimate Cut more out of morbid curiosity than actual anticipation, but I would love to watch an extended version of this film. I'm definitely keen to see the theatrical cut again in the coming weeks.

I should probably wait until subsequent viewings, but I think this may be my favourite DCEU film (although not neccessarily the best film of the five)

[Jim Kelly]

Does the general public really examine the movies as closely as the fan press? CGI for movies over five years old will jump out at me, but generaly I'm not looking for defects. I have a good education in cinema and I've seen a lot of movies, but when I go to the theatre I'm not interrogating every frame of the movie. I'm just trying to get a sense of the plot and the characters and have a good time with what's on offer.

If I thought it through, I could figure out what scenes were Whedon and what scenes were Snyder, but I didn't do that when I watched JUSTICE LEAGUE. I just surrendered to the story and let it be.

Seeing Supes at the beginning was a good way to assure the audience that this movie understands the Man of Steel and it's going to get there by the end. If I'm honest, at first I didn't believe it was Superman. Cavill's face is weird like that--sometimes he looks like Supes, sometimes he doesn't. And because it was on a cell phone, I thought it could be just some random dude pretending to be the Caped Kryptonian, to give people hope.

At the second showing, I was trying to spot the moustache. I couldn't do it and I made myself stop, because it was not worth it. It annoys me when people say oh they can see this tiny detail in a movie that any normal person would never notice. Congratulations for you, you have some super-power. But it's an arrogant brag. People who declare that they are so brilliant and eagle-eyed are just too full of themselves.

Giving all the characters their own scenes in the first act helped to remind us who they are as individuals. In the past movies, Amy Adams as Lois Lane was one of the characters that annoyed me, but here with Martha she felt more grounded and not elitist. I could better appreciate why Clark loves her--which is important to know for later when she's the key to his salvation (and ultimately the world's salvation).

Ben Affeck's Batman is my favourite on-screen Batman. Michael Keaton is my favourite Bruce Wayne. I think people will appreciate the distinction. So many attempts at trying to show Batman on screen have finally paid off. And it's a group effort with Batman--costume designers, stunt people, cinematographers, trainers, effects people, directors and the actor. Whereas, Bruce Wayne is mainly about the actor who plays him.

It's too bad that so much of the first encounter between Bruce and Arthur was shown in promotion of the movie. If I hadn't seen that before, their whole scene would have been more effective. I think Aquaman suffers the most for having so many of his best bits already revealed in the trailers. But maybe that's on me for having watched those promos--not every movie-goer would have seen that.

The Amazing Amazon was absolutely wonderful in her first big scene. This was the pay-off to the final scene in WONDER WOMAN.

If there's one character who is vital to this movie it's Barry Allen. Ezra Miller is funny but he also brings a humanity to the team. Every other character benefits in reaction to him. Diana becomes more sincere. Bruce becomes more self-effacing. Cyborg becomes a friend.

Superman seeing the Flash and the Flash seeing that he sees him is one of the big moments in the movie. I totally geek out over that scene and what it means for both characters.

On the theme of special effects, I didn't not notice any defects in Cyborg. Ray Fisher's early scenes are not special effects heavy, as his character is being established. And for the later scenes where he's morphing into different forms, the CGI doesn't need to be solid, because he isn't. He's in a state of flux. Likewise, you could use the same argument for the wolf of the steppes. He's a magic god powered by the Source--does he have to look solid?

I thought that Wonder Woman proved herself against Superman. I think Supes enjoys the advantage that he's powered by different things than Wondy and Wolfy. In the comics, they always make out that magic beats science. But what if it's the reverse? What if science beats magic? There's a reason Steppenwolf was out of it when the Green Lanterns and the Kryptonians were around. Diana couldn't beat the New God, because they're too much the same. Where Superman can cow him, because Clark is working on a different level.

In one respect, this movie is the third part in a trilogy that began with MAN OF STEEL. I wonder if WB could repackage these films as a set--but what would you call it? The Snyder Superman Trilogy? But in another respect, this movie is like the first part in a new series--and it feels like BATMAN BEGINS, down to the tease of the villains at the end of the movie. BB was not a huge hit for WB and yet they went ahead and did THE DARK KNIGHT. However, there was much less risk for WB with Batman.

[Lightning Rider]

In one respect, this movie is the third part in a trilogy that began with MAN OF STEEL. I wonder if WB could repackage these films as a set--but what would you call it? The Snyder Superman Trilogy? But in another respect, this movie is like the first part in a new series--and it feels like BATMAN BEGINS, down to the tease of the villains at the end of the movie. BB was not a huge hit for WB and yet they went ahead and did THE DARK KNIGHT. However, there was much less risk for WB with Batman.

Shall we call this the end of the DCEU's "Phase 1" so to speak?

[TheBlackTerror]

Saw it last night in a crowed theater and I thought it was terrific. Is it "Citizen Kane"? of course not, but it was a fine action film. Not gonna lie, the last 45 minutes of JL is (mostly) the movie I've really been waiting my entire life to see, ever since I was a kid collecting satellite-era JLA comics and watching Superfriends on TV.

And for better or worse I'm invested enough that I have to keep reminding myself, that if JL doesn't do well, its ok, its just a movie. I'll admit with the bad press pile ons its hard to keep that attitude.

One question that has come to me in the last 12 hours. If you are a movie critic and know nothing of comics, their history, etc and just look at all these movies I really can't see how the criticisms of JL can't also be applied to Ragnarok:

Team of superheros several of which are CGI fests (Both)-check
Macguffin needed for plot--(both) check
Tons of mindless action and CGI violence (Both) Check
Big Bad is a giant cartoon that wears horns (both) Check (Ok Blanchett is certainly given more of a backstory, but in the end both her and Steppenwolf want to destroy
their respective worlds for Blah, blah, blah reasons)
Tons of (sometimes forced) humor (both) Check

I'm not trying to say there is a conspiracy is going on, I just don't understand how many of the faults critics heap on JL they did not seem to on Ragnarok (and yes I loved Ragnarok as well)

[Nick Miller]

I really enjoyed it.

Loved the Vic scenes

Loved the Amazon sequences, WW stopping the machine gun was an amazing speed feat.

All of Gal in the movie was great. Much better than in her movie, where she seemed stiff and her action scenes were not even close to what she did here.

Did everyone notice Fatfleck? Holy double chin Batman!

[Nick Miller]

So JL 2 will be JL vs Injustice League

And the 3rd will be Darkseid

And then maybe, these actors will be retired by then? Can Gal and Cavill (never going to like him as Sups) do this for 8-10 more years?

[Punisher007]

Few thought I have:

- Have to start with Superman, this was almost a perfect showing for the character: powerful, human, emotional, fun when he showed up in the final battle he looked AMAZING they really brightened the colours on his suit and when he was carrying that entire building that was just such a Superman moment. I say almost perfect because it is such a pity they messed up with moustachegate so bad the CGI is terrible in that opening scene and the post credits, seems they replaced the entire bottom half of his face.

- Wished Aquaman was given more to do, he really didn't have a big wow moment to shine IMO, I guess you could say it was the tunnel but still. Also would of been nice to see more of Atlantis, they completely cut Vulko as I expected but they also cut the scene with Arthur and the dead king which I suspect was where he gets his armour and trident, disappointing. Also it is just me or did he seem a bit weak given he was the powerhouse type along with Diana, she seemed a lot stronger than him both in the Superman and Steppenwolf fights, I hopefully chalk this down to him not having the martial training she has.

- Originally I think Silas Stone was supposed to die, there's a quick shot in one of the trailers which shows Vic tearing up which isn't in the movie and the fact Silas just disappears for the entire movie until the end after Vic saves him, they probably scrapped his death and reshot the scene at the end with Vic getting his new upgrade/armour (which looked so good btw classic Cyborg logo!) to go in line with the more hopeful ending.

- Speaking of the ending I thought it was really nicely done, lots of classic shots like Batman staring up at the Bat symbol and Clark Kent FINALLY doing the Superman transformation and the part where they talk about turning Wayne Manor into a JL headquarters with 6 chairs but room for more, loved it.



Agree with this.

Overall I thought the team had amazing chemistry, and the team fighting Supreman while I did not like the idea before hand I think they handled it rather well and it was badass just seeing Superman taking on the entire league at once and winning. And chalk me up as another Luthor fan, and he even looked much more like the Lex we all know this time around.



4&5. Yep the new guys were all awesome, given Cyborg wasn't given a whole lot in the trailers I was surprised and delighted to see just how good he was and how integral he was to the movie.

6. I really don't get all the hate for Steppenwolf he was decent certainly not any worse then most other CGI bad guys of the last 10 years? He actually had some pretty cool fight scenes and one liners IMO.

9. It happened a bit too quick for my liking wish they had built up Superman's return a bit more but I agree the actual way they did it was cool making use of multiple characters to bring him back.

That was actually one of the worst parts of the film imo, and totally unnecessary.

[Lightning Rider]

That was actually one of the worst parts of the film imo, and totally unnecessary.

I actually think it's the only part of the movie that successfully establishes tension. Steppenwolf doesn't really have much weight. But those tense moments with Superman not recognizing the league, then fighting them and holding Batman in his clutches, you actually feel they're in trouble and fucked up a little bit. Obviously you know Superman will turn, but the characters don't know that. Then when he takes off they're kind of back to square one. Then it really pays off when he returns.