¿How long do you want aduly cyclops dead? and when he comes back then what?

[Hizashi]

What exactly makes Cyclops like Magneto? That's a serious question, what defines Magneto so cleanly that Scott can be considered the 2.0 update? I don't exactly think Scott was a hero as "Rightclops", but he wasn't meant to be one (IMO); I don't mind considering him an anti-hero, but why would he be "hubristic"?

[FUBAR007]

This always points out the hypocrisy of his haters.

I don't hate Cyclops. Pre-Morrison, he was my favorite character. I hate "Rightclops."

First, Xavier had it coming. He's the Bill Cosby of the X-verse. Someone you grew up idolizing yet in adulthood you discover they shady as f***.

...which is another example of character assassination we have nuMarvel to blame for. Xavier's not supposed to be that kind of guy. Whedon and Brubaker's retcons retroactively made him a villain. A well-intentioned villain, but still a villain.

Xavier is another character I don't see as truly redeemable without another retcon.

[The tall man]

Are we really suppose to believe that lily-white mutants Cyclops and Emma suffer more discrimination, prejudice and bigotry than Sam Wilson or Rage or Blue Marvel or any other average black person in the MU? I don't think so. Now if the MU was all straight whites then yeah, but it's not. So to say mutants are worse off than actual minorities is insulting.

[FUBAR007]

What exactly makes Cyclops like Magneto? That's a serious question, what defines Magneto so cleanly that Scott can be considered the 2.0 update?

They both came to believe that the ends justified the means.

I don't exactly think Scott was a hero as "Rightclops", but he wasn't meant to be one (IMO); I don't mind considering him an anti-hero, but why would he be "hubristic"?

He thought he knew what he was doing when he didn't. He thought he understood what the consequences of his actions would be when really he didn't. He overestimated both his own competence and his own righteousness.

[Hizashi]

They both came to believe that the ends justified the means.

Okay, I see what you mean. But wasn't Scott fighting for Xavier's dream until the end? Maybe his approach changed, but his goals never truly aligned with Magneto's, which is a big enough difference to me.

He thought he knew what he was doing when he didn't. He thought he understood what the consequences of his actions would be when really he didn't. He overestimated both his own competence and his own righteousness.

Is there anything that comes to mind specifically?

[NexusTenebrare]

Are we really suppose to believe that lily-white mutants Cyclops and Emma suffer more discrimination, prejudice and bigotry than Sam Wilson or Rage or Blue Marvel or any other average black person in the MU? I don't think so. Now if the MU was all straight whites then yeah, but it's not. So to say mutants are worse off than actual minorities is insulting.

Where in the MU are the government-funded giant killer robots that go after black people?

[Hizashi]

Where in the MU are the government-funded giant killer robots that go after black people?

I was gonna ask if they meant minorities IRL, but saw that they mentioned Falcon, Rage, and Blue Marvel; there's no way they suffer more discrimination than mutants.

[FUBAR007]

But wasn't Scott fighting for Xavier's dream until the end?

He liked to think so, but no. He'd become a mutant survivalist/nationalist a la Magneto. Scott's (and Emma's) oversight of Utopia was very similar to Magneto's of Asteroid M and Avalon.

Xavier's dream was integration, not mutant nationalism.

Is there anything that comes to mind specifically?

Off the top my head? His behavior during Schism, AvX, and AvX's immediate aftermath. Specifically, his handling of the Phoenix Force and then, afterward, when he not only confessed to killing Xavier, but said he'd do it again like he was proud of it.

That really, really pissed me off.

[lurkerforyears]

Are we really suppose to believe that lily-white mutants Cyclops and Emma suffer more discrimination, prejudice and bigotry than Sam Wilson or Rage or Blue Marvel or any other average black person in the MU? I don't think so. Now if the MU was all straight whites then yeah, but it's not. So to say mutants are worse off than actual minorities is insulting.

Does the government build giant robots to kill African American homo sapiens?
Sentinels, the role of politicians and the State in financing them, the fact mutants have been subject to concentration camps and Genocide all their history, is the proof that being a mutant, of any race, is worse than being a sapiens of any race, in the Marvel universe. At best you could think the Avengers and Captain America are **** for doing nothing about it, or that mutants should be sent to their own universe, because the persecutions they endure don't mesh well with the rest of the Marvel universe.

Mutants who retire to live a normal life, like Avalanche, always end up getting killed (he owned a bar in San Francisco and was lobotomized by the red skull)
The mutants who are not opressed, are the ones who are able to hide their are mutants because they look like normal people, and have no disadvantage from their mutation. But still, that doesnt save them from evil eugenicist biologists, or robots that can detect mutants. They have to keep the fact they are mutants in the closet, and stuff like blood tests or diseases that only affect mutants, can expose them.

[oldscottsummers]

He liked to think so, but no. He'd become a mutant survivalist/nationalist a la Magneto. Scott's (and Emma's) oversight of Utopia was very similar to Magneto's of Asteroid M and Avalon.

Xavier's dream was integration, not mutant nationalism.



Off the top my head? His behavior during Schism, AvX, and AvX's immediate aftermath. Specifically, his handling of the Phoenix Force and then, afterward, when he not only confessed to killing Xavier, but said he'd do it again like he was proud of it.

That really, really pissed me off.

I actually loved it when he said it.

[Calaigah]

He liked to think so, but no. He'd become a mutant survivalist/nationalist a la Magneto. Scott's (and Emma's) oversight of Utopia was very similar to Magneto's of Asteroid M and Avalon.


Xavier's dream was integration, not mutant nationalism.

No it wasn't! Magneto's original dream was for mutants to rule over humans. What Cyclops did during his had nothing to do with mutants ruling over humans, it had to do with SURVIVAL. Xavier's dream can't be accomplished if mutants are extinct.

Off the top my head? His behavior during Schism, AvX, and AvX's immediate aftermath.

Pfft. What'd you want him to do? Ask those who wanted mutantkind extinct tom please not kill them? Aww. I'm sure the villains would've stopped if he asked them nicely....

Specifically, his handling of the Phoenix Force and then, afterward, when he not only confessed to killing Xavier, but said he'd do it again like he was proud of it.

His handling of the Phoenix force? He was possessed! If even the CHOSEN ones can't control the Phoenix how the hell do you expect someone who wasn't chosen to handle it.

Said he'd do it again like he's proud of it? Please don't talk about things you know nothing about. Cyclops was never proud, he felt nothing but shame. But if him feeling shame, having his reputation ruined and turned into a pariah meant that mutants did NOT become extinct and would flourish again, then yeah, he was ok with the outcome.

[oldscottsummers]

Are we really suppose to believe that lily-white mutants Cyclops and Emma suffer more discrimination, prejudice and bigotry than Sam Wilson or Rage or Blue Marvel or any other average black person in the MU? I don't think so. Now if the MU was all straight whites then yeah, but it's not. So to say mutants are worse off than actual minorities is insulting.

In Marvel there are real privileged straight white male characters like Cap, Stark, Wolverine, NAMOR, Quentin but you choose absolutely non-privileged cyclops. And cyclops have a lot of non-white fans, female fanbase.

[Hizashi]

He liked to think so, but no. He'd become a mutant survivalist/nationalist a la Magneto. Scott's (and Emma's) oversight of Utopia was very similar to Magneto's of Asteroid M and Avalon.

Xavier's dream was integration, not mutant nationalism.

Extinction was knocking on their door, and despite that Scott never leaned towards mutant supremacy the way Magneto did; when he was (unwillingly) possessed by the Phoenix, he opened up Utopia to all peoples (correct me if I'm wrong). He made Xavier's dream a reality, but Xavier thought it had been too easy.

Off the top my head? His behavior during Schism, AvX, and AvX's immediate aftermath. Specifically, his handling of the Phoenix Force and then, afterward, when he not only confessed to killing Xavier, but said he'd do it again like he was proud of it.

That really, really pissed me off.

I truly don't see how Scott could be considered a villain during or after AvX (I'll give you that Schism is more ambiguous). How was Scott acting proud that he'd killed Xavier?

[spirit2011]

In Marvel there are real privileged straight white male characters like Cap, Stark, Wolverine, NAMOR, Quentin but you choose absolutely non-privileged cyclops. And cyclops have a lot of non-white fans, female fanbase.

Of ocurse Cyclops i son the white straight men privilege

[lurkerforyears]

Scott is an orphan raised in an orphanage directed by Mr Sinister, whose mutation gives him a disability.