Justice league box office: What went wrong

[inisideguy]

There are probably many, many reasons for that:

It's the first live-action film featuring Batman and Superman.
It's the first film with Ben Affleck's Batman as a lead.
It's a direct continuation of MoS.

Yea and Box office isn't a straight black and white line either. When a movie opens, what the competiton is around it are huge factors. SS and Wonder Woman are perfect examples of this. Everything around Wonder Woman bombed. There was nothing around suicide squad either for like 8 weeks. Even with awful reviews, people went to see it cause there was literally nothing else in the theaters. Man of Steel on the other hand had tons of films in front and behind it that did very well.

[AJBopp]

There are probably many, many reasons for that:

It's the first live-action film featuring Batman and Superman.
It's the first film with Ben Affleck's Batman as a lead.
It's a direct continuation of MoS.

And, just possibly, that it wasn't as generally disliked as some like to think (I absolutely hated it, so I don't come at this discussion with a pro-BvS bias).

[AJBopp]

Here's the thing, i'm going to say this cause i don't think anyone is going to admit it. I think people who are against DC will never like their movies regardless of how well made they are. I still see the same people trying to tear WW down.

After careful consideration, I'm probably making the wrong decision and will reply to this.

I want nothing more than to see live action DC heroes done well on the big screen. I also want nothing more than to see poorly-made movies of any sort do poorly.

There was a video review of JL posted somewhere awhile back that had the host saying "All you Marvel fans, don't rejoice in JL's failure! This is bad for all superhero movies!" I haven't seen JL yet, so I can't comment from personal experience, but I would argue that all indications are that the movie is at least mediocre, if not badly-made. I do not have any idea yet whether I would find it enjoyable, which is a very different thing than quality.

I do know that Zack Snyder has failed to deliver DC movie that I thought was very well made, and I rejoice in those failure. Now, I personally didn't see Suicide Squad because I don't care for the concept of the story, and have no opinion on the movie. I did see Wonder Woman. I left from boredom after the No Man's Land scene, and finished the movie after I could stream it, and found the ending haphazard and confusing.

However, given both the critical and audience reception of the film, it is clear that most people saw something in this movie that escaped me, and I am personally glad that it did well. Even though I personally didn't get it, there was clearly a lot there to get. I would be perfectly happy if WB continued to make DC movies that I personally don't like but that are clearly well done and resonate with a lot people. I'd like it more if I did get it, but that's on me not the movies.

The thing with MoS and BvS is that they were poorly-made, and not very much fun. The performance of these films at the box office, and the critical reception from those whose job it is to understand how movies are done well, would appear to bear out my belief.

[XPac]

Here's the thing, i'm going to say this cause i don't think anyone is going to admit it. I think people who are against DC will never like their movies regardless of how well made they are. I still see the same people trying to tear WW down.

Wonder WOman is actually why I don't believe there's some anti-DC movie conspiracy or whatever. Because I honestly think Wonder Woman was very very well received. Critics for the most part seemed to love it. And I think the overall reception on boards like this is fairly positive too.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

On megprojcts of this extent i am pretty sure the CEO calls the shots.

Yeah, you're right, I didn't phrase it correctly. The ones who spend the money have the final say, but between directors and screenwriters, a director can ask for changes in a screenplay, I've never heard of a screenwriter who asked for a change in directors because they didn't fulfill the writer's vision. To the extent that "the suits" don't interfere much it's the director's vision that prevails over the writer's.

[brettc1]

That can't be trusted with people spamming one, and ten star reviews.

It all evens out. Sure, the first 20K votes tend by 10 because people are supporting the movie. But after than things settle down because, frankly, there aren't that many comic book nerds like us compared to regular viewers.

The one star review are actually quite low, and comparing like to like you still cannot escape the conclusion that Ragnarok is outstripping JL but a goodly amount.

Here's the thing, i'm going to say this cause i don't think anyone is going to admit it. I think people who are against DC will never like their movies regardless of how well made they are. I still see the same people trying to tear WW down.

Even if this were true, the point would be they could not tear down WW because the movie was just too good. Unlike this one.

But no, I don't think that is the case. It's not that people aren't going to admit it, it's just that the proposition is flat out demonstrably wrong.

There was a video review of JL posted somewhere awhile back that had the host saying "All you Marvel fans, don't rejoice in JL's failure! This is bad for all superhero movies!" I haven't seen JL yet, so I can't comment from personal experience, but I would argue that all indications are that the movie is at least mediocre, if not badly-made. I do not have any idea yet whether I would find it enjoyable, which is a very different thing than quality.

This is like saying that the awfulness of Transformers Last Knight will somehow damage the Star Wars franchise.

Uh, no.

[Da Boat]

After careful consideration, I'm probably making the wrong decision and will reply to this.

I want nothing more than to see live action DC heroes done well on the big screen. I also want nothing more than to see poorly-made movies of any sort do poorly.

There was a video review of JL posted somewhere awhile back that had the host saying "All you Marvel fans, don't rejoice in JL's failure! This is bad for all superhero movies!" I haven't seen JL yet, so I can't comment from personal experience, but I would argue that all indications are that the movie is at least mediocre, if not badly-made. I do not have any idea yet whether I would find it enjoyable, which is a very different thing than quality.

I do know that Zack Snyder has failed to deliver DC movie that I thought was very well made, and I rejoice in those failure. Now, I personally didn't see Suicide Squad because I don't care for the concept of the story, and have no opinion on the movie. I did see Wonder Woman. I left from boredom after the No Man's Land scene, and finished the movie after I could stream it, and found the ending haphazard and confusing.

However, given both the critical and audience reception of the film, it is clear that most people saw something in this movie that escaped me, and I am personally glad that it did well. Even though I personally didn't get it, there was clearly a lot there to get. I would be perfectly happy if WB continued to make DC movies that I personally don't like but that are clearly well done and resonate with a lot people. I'd like it more if I did get it, but that's on me not the movies.

The thing with MoS and BvS is that they were poorly-made, and not very much fun. The performance of these films at the box office, and the critical reception from those whose job it is to understand how movies are done well, would appear to bear out my belief.

Yea for me I'm happy a DC movie was successful and people loved it but I felt WW was overall pretty bland. Like I said in my review, I liked stuff in it but it needed that something extra. For the record, I thought Spidey: homecoming was pretty bland too.

But I think it's human nature to beat on something that people don't find great amongs a wave of praises. I know it's a bit hipster-y though but it's the same thing that those that praise something they know is not great but just want something to be a win for "their side" so to speak. I know cause I've done it.

[WontonGirl]

Comic book movies have two types of fans, comics fans and those that have never touched a comic book a day in their lives. While those who are versed in the source material can go back and fourth about what really makes a good movie, I feel the general audience largely doesn't care beyond being entertained.

I disagree. I find that Comic Book superhero movies have 3 types of fans; Mainstream, Comic Book and Casual fans

Comic Book fans - no description needed

Casual fans - the general movie going public. They rely on their eyes. If it looks good, they will watch it. If it don't, they won't.

Mainstream fans - fans that are fans of the characters through all mainstream adaptions but never picked up a comic or hasn't in years

In my opinion, JL just didn't have enough of the "wow" power for the Mainstream and Casual fans to make them want to go see that movie. It just didn't. I mean, it's just as simple as that. I mean, I know on the threads, we tend to go over and over about the why and the how but at the end of the day, if people are not feeling it, they just aren't feeling it and a lot of regular people were not feeling it. And some of these same people are watching The Flash or Batman is their favorite character or they love Jason Momoa or they saw Wonder Woman and blah, blah, blah.

Sometimes none of that means anything. Sometimes, it's just comes down to if a movie is good or not.

[WontonGirl]

One more thing.

Wonder Woman was going to be a success because of just what it was. Female audience members of pretty much all ages were going to see that movie because it was Wonder Woman first time on screen and because it's Wonder Woman and what she represents. So they were going to turn out for her whether they were casuals, mainstream or comic book fans. And then it turned out to be a good movie as well. Plus nostalgia. People grew up on the TV show. People knew her from the Justice League cartoons. Some 20's and younger 30's something saw her animated movie. All these things added up in her favor.

Same thing happened with Superman. The Donner films were iconic but so Superman's presence in society was much, much stronger back in the late 70's AND they hit gold with Chris AND again, nostalgia. More of the general public was into comic books or wasinto comics growing up AND it was 20 years after the "Adventures of Superman" show with George Reeves. So the public was eager and ready to see Superman on the big screen.

I think with Justice League, they should have had more stand alone films to introduce each of the members and THEN do the Justice League movie. That way, the audience would had been warmed up to it. If they kept seeing cameos of Flash in one movie and maybe Cyborg in another, I think that would had been better.

But regardless of the characters, the movie has to be good. If people don't think it's a good movie, trust, those fans will spread that it's not a good movie.

[daisetsu100]

havent seen the movie but im inclined to agree that the JL movie wasnt a box office success because of BvS.

we've seen something similar happen before, look at the Hulk movies, im pretty sure if the 2003 movie was never released, the 2008 movie would probably be in Ironman movie levels of success.

in short, people are already fixated on hating it because of what they've seen previously.

[skyvolt2000]

And, just possibly, that it wasn't as generally disliked as some like to think (I absolutely hated it, so I don't come at this discussion with a pro-BvS bias).

Or folks were not interested.

A radio station did a remote at Sprint here in Dallas yesterday.

Among the stuff for free was promo t-shirts for two movies.

Justice League & Blade Runner.

NOBODY wanted the Justice League shirts and they were free.

I end up with one because it was the only one close to my size.

[Divine Spark]

And, just possibly, that it wasn't as generally disliked as some like to think (I absolutely hated it, so I don't come at this discussion with a pro-BvS bias).

Well over 50% of the domestic money came from its opening weekend. So it did indeed have a terrible word of mouth.

[AJBopp]

Hm. Justice League drops about 33% from opening Friday to this Friday. That seems impressive, and beyond expectations.

[Midvillian1322]

Hm. Justice League drops about 33% from opening Friday to this Friday. That seems impressive, and beyond expectations.

Yea if it can have small drops i can climb back up there and hopefuly do nunbers WB will be happy with. Or happy enough not to start cancelling anything because i do want more with this cast. Eisenbergs luthor is the only one i want gone

[inisideguy]

Hm. Justice League drops about 33% from opening Friday to this Friday. That seems impressive, and beyond expectations.

Thats cool but thanksgiving tends to warp drops. But yes that is still cool. Interesting stat. JL brought in more money on its second Friday than all the other DCEU movies including Wonder Woman. Pretty amazing.