Love-Hate Relationship with The Dark Knight

[AJBopp]

Inspired purely by the fact that I'm watching the movie again.

Overall, I enjoy The Dark Knight, but it's difficult sometimes.

On the good side, there are little nuances that many people miss even after several viewings, that really add character to the film.

• Batman not realizing Harvey is using a two-headed coin when apparently brutally threatening Joker's henchman after the apparent death of Gordon, only to discover the coin after he saves Harvey from death.
• Alfred's story of a Burmese criminal with the tagline of "some people just want to watch the world burn" only to reveal later they only caught the guy by burning down the forest
• Joker excaping the MCU in a police car with his head out the window reveling in the wind like a dog, and later revealing he's "like a dog chasing cars."

There is almost nothing about this script that is there by coincidence. So many subtle nuances - it's an incredibly advanced piece of writing.

But balanced against that is the horrible direction, and particularly the editing. The chase scene where Joker is going after Harvey in the police convoy is one of the most difficult to follow in cinematic action movie history. There are very basic flaws throughout the film involving point of view, sequencing, camera angle.

But there are brilliant performances by people like Heath Ledger, who brings a terrifying creature to uncomfortable life while being genuinely funny (see the Joker leaving the hospital, or the disappearing pencil), and Michael Caine turning in a subtle meaningful performance without being a nagging conscience as Alfred. But then there is the wooden, uninspired performance of Bale, who seems to go through motions unless he's delivering a one-liner ("i'm gonna tell them it was your idea!")

But it was a landmark film in the superhero genre, influencing so many other films to follow - most importantly, and ironically, the Marvel films.

Anyone else have such conflicting views on this movie?

[Osiris-Rex]

I'm sort of the same way. I never got all the hype for this movie and the Joker in this movie is my least favorite version. It's a very unpopular opinion, but I even liked Jared Leto's Joker more.
Never really was a fan of the Joker anyway though, so that in itself is a strike against the movie. I did like Batman Begins but also found The Dark Knight Rises to be pretty boring for most
of the movie.

I guess the worst part about it was it seemed to be the major influence on Superman in subsequent films.

[Midvillian1322]

Im firmly in the boat thats its a great Joker movie but a meh Batman movie. But overall i still find the movie to be impressive i put it on a short list with Logan,IronMan and TWS as best CBM.

[DrNewGod]

I also find myself conflicted. I thoroughly enjoyed DK, but I could never get comfortable with Nolan's and Bale's view that the vigilante crusade was something Wayne really didn't want to be doing. It's an interesting take, but I guess I was just too steeped in the idea of Batman as "this is who I am" for Wayne. I couldn't quite make myself buy the idea that Wayne saw Batman as a strategy toward a finite goal.

The Joker I loved. He was a brilliant update of Kane/Robinson and Finger's mysterious and demented monster of a man. In DK as in 1940, he seemed a creature vomited up from a concentration of the worst of the time's events. The idea that Joker might represent some escalation by Crime (in an almost metaphysical sense) in response to Batman's appearance also interested me. Almost as though The Joker was part of the price for the sins The Batman committed in his blind pursuit of his mission.

[hartttt]

No film is perfect.I always preferred batman begins because I felt the ensemble cast was better, batman was better in it, rachel was used more effectively as the female heroine, raz al ghual had more depth as a villian than joker and also batman begins was a film we could judged with clear heads since none of the actors sadly lost their lives like ledger in TDK which influenced a lot of people' opinion about the movie. Having said that, I will still take TDK over any recent gag mcu comic film today. there was substance in the movie. TDK is one of the few movies that made comic films be smart and thoughtful.

[Arfguy]

In my opinion, the technical stuff (with the exception of fight choreography and some editing) is absolutely brilliant. I cannot say anything about Ledger's performance that hasn't already been said.

My problem with this movie has always been Bale's Batman. There are some glaring flaws in logistics, but the pace is so breakneck and breathtaking, that it is easy to overlook the flaws.

A landmark movie and deserving of pretty much all the praise it gets...as long as it is not about how great Christian Bale was as Batman

[hartttt]

In my opinion, the technical stuff (with the exception of fight choreography and some editing) is absolutely brilliant. I cannot say anything about Ledger's performance that hasn't already been said.

My problem with this movie has always been Bale's Batman. There are some glaring flaws in logistics, but the pace is so breakneck and breathtaking, that it is easy to overlook the flaws.

A landmark movie and deserving of pretty much all the praise it gets...as long as it is not about how great Christian Bale was as Batman

well, Bale has been critical of himself in the movie. I will still take him over affleck.

[TomServofan]

well, Bale has been critical of himself in the movie. I will still take him over affleck.

Nah i think Affleck was a better Wayne

[Cyke]

In my opinion, the technical stuff (with the exception of fight choreography and some editing) is absolutely brilliant. I cannot say anything about Ledger's performance that hasn't already been said.

My problem with this movie has always been Bale's Batman. There are some glaring flaws in logistics, but the pace is so breakneck and breathtaking, that it is easy to overlook the flaws.

A landmark movie and deserving of pretty much all the praise it gets...as long as it is not about how great Christian Bale was as Batman

Nah i think Affleck was a better Wayne

This is slightly off topic but thanks to Netflix, I was able to watch the four Batfilms and then Batman Begins again, and the first four make me really appreciate Rutger Hauer's character a bit more. When I first saw the film, I thought he was a throwaway character (definitely nowhere near as interesting as the League or Scarecrow), but it wasn't until now that I realized he was there because Bruce Wayne himself needed a villain to overcome, just as much as Batman would need a supervillain. It's something the Burton/Schumacher films had been missing -- someone who would really show Wayne's business aptitude. Sure, Wayne butted heads with Nygma, but Nygma was an enemy of both Batman and Wayne; Burton's Wayne was always secondary to Batman (hell, he does almost no business dealings at all other than host fancy parties in the first movie, and in the second he just has a brief argument with Shreck -- neither Wayne nor Batman actively pursue him as a villain even though he's just as much an antagonist as Penguin and Catwoman). By having the Hauer subplot there, Christian Bale could focus far more on the duality of Bruce/Batman than his predecessors, to show that he was fighting on two fronts.

[Da Boat]

The movie taken as such I felt had one bad moment as far as execution and that was the ending with the hostages, especially all the cops dressed as villains in the building.

For what Nolan wanted to accomplish, it was almost flawless but personality I don't care about the idea that a villain like Joker just want chaos and that's where his motives ends. I know as a director like Nolan that is the challenge that is almost worth taking, put a villain in there with possibly the most simplistic motives and make it work. I just wish it wouldn't have been that way.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I enjoy The Dark Knight, my one issue with it is that it is an emotionally draining movie, its not fun to watch....at all

its a great film, but very heavy

[JBatmanFan05]

The film is foremost too long, as with most big blockbuster movies today that can't justify their length. Editing and etc I have issues with too. Pacing of course.

And I didn't care for the changes to Harvey's origin. The best part of the film is Ledger's Joker, which completely took me by surprise (I predicted his Joker would suck, but he lost himself in the role and it was a fantastically imagined alternate take).

[Iron_Legion87]

I LOVE The Dark Knight it's one of my top super hero flicks of all time, but I understand the flaws with it. I actually prefer the look and feel of Gotham in Batman Begins over the real world Chicago location used for Gotham in DK. Batman Begins Gotham felt more like the comic version to me. Also, I could have done without the Rachel, Bruce, Harvey love triangle. Lastly, the action scenes are just okay/ average but still good enough. But honestly those are the only gripes I have with it. In my book, it's a near perfect super hero film. Dark Knight Rises on the other hand is a very flawed film that I am NOT a fan of.

[hartttt]

Nah i think Affleck was a better Wayne

no, not to me

[Jekyll]

I enjoy The Dark Knight, my one issue with it is that it is an emotionally draining movie, its not fun to watch....at all

its a great film, but very heavy

This and I find it incredibly overrated. Batman Begins is my favorite of the Nolan films.