"Injustice & an insult to make white Superman a symbol for xenophobia"

[JAK]

**** this designer "what's in and sympathetic" Get Out (the movie) bullshit that Jimenez is using. So what if he's white? I'm black, and the son of immigrants, and **** you if you're somehow insinuating that Superman can't represent how I or my parents felt/feel everyday. Are you saying that minorities are somehow too dumb to use basic empathy? Oh, lordy, how on Earth am I ever going to understand the enigma that is a fictional alien who happens to have white skin?! So, yeah, lets make him black or Hispanic or Asian because that's "in." White just isn't "fashionable" anymore, huh? **** you. My skin color isn't some popular designer shirt you can wear when the season calls for it. God, I hate this line of thinking SO much because most people who bring it up don't get how got damn racist it actually is. Oh, hey, better yet, lets make Superman racially ambiguous so he can check off all those boxes on the sensus (sarcasm. Lord have mercy this is sarcasm). Superman is white, and that's freakin' okay! The xenophobia stuff applies to Clark IN SPITE of his skin color. You confuse the issues of why and how people are prejudges towards him if you make him black or Hispanic or Asian. You deliberately shift the narrative at that point rather than making it stronger or even adding to it. I don't understand how this isn't boldface to most.

And to be very clear, the xenophobia angle is a relatively small aspect of his character. For heroes that lean into that far more effectively (and who are begging for a reevaluation), see Martian Manhunter. The fact that Superman's ultimate point as a character is far more inclusive than the just the idea of xenophobia (simply being the best version of yourself as often as you can be) is part of the reason why it doesn't matter that he's white or a even a man. For God's sake, his alien origins weren't even known to him or anyone else (thus making them a non factor) for a long stretch of time in the comics. What was being judged and sometimes persecuted were his actions and point of view. Pretty sure we all have both of those, right?

God, **** this line of thinking, and every time it comes up. It's NOT ****ing clever, groundbreaking, inclusive, or even forward thinking. It's basically nice people being unintentionally racist. My skin color isn't a got damn shirt, Jimenez.

Yeah... I'm just gonna go ahead a defer to Superlad on this. Wow, powerful stuff, man!

[Lex Luthor]

I don't think it's an injustice nor is it wrong to have him be a white man. However, I would love for them to make him a different race.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Having grown up in a small, rural, poor region much like Clark's (granted mine was far worse than Smallville), I can safely say there is nothing privileged about it. Skin color doesn't mean anything when you have to decide between buying groceries, shoes for your kids, or keeping the heat and lights on. Ah, poverity; the great equalizer.

A poor white person will still have privilege that a poor person of color doesn't. Being poor does not mean racial privilege is no longer a factor.

Years ago some feminist on the Internet told me I was “privileged.”

“THE F&CK!?!?” I said.

I came from the kind of poor that people don’t want to believe still exists in this country. Have you ever spent a frigid northern-Illinois winter without heat or running water? I have. At 12 years old were you making ramen noodles in a coffee maker with water you fetched from a public bathroom? I was. Have you ever lived in a camper year-round and used a random relative’s apartment as your mailing address? We did. Did you attend so many different elementary schools that you can only remember a quarter of their names? Welcome to my childhood.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-...b_5269255.html

[Superlad93]

Yeah... I'm just gonna go ahead a defer to Superlad on this. Wow, powerful stuff, man!

Lol thanks. So many grammatical errors in that quote. I just get so fed up with that specific line of thinking. I know people mean well when they bring it up, but I just can't deal with the weird almost high horse that comes with the opinion. It's like they think they're doing people like me and my parents a favor, but in fact it's condescending, insulting, and unintentionally racist.

I'm constantly wondering why Martian Manhunter isn't getting this particular push. I'd be all for it because it's not narratively inept, and it builds on what IS a core aspect of the character.

[daBronzeBomma]

A poor white person will still have privilege that a poor person of color doesn't.

Only if the difference in their wealth is truly negligible. Wealth matters more than race.

A richer person of color does have more advantages than a poorer white person in the US. And as a person of color who is neither white nor black, I can tell when and how I get treated differently than either. Wealth (and the appearance of it) plays a bigger role than race in this country in most situations.

Being poor does not mean racial privilege is no longer a factor.

But it does mean that said privilege, while not truly eliminated, gets dramatically reduced the poorer you are.

Drawing this back to Superman, Clark Kent's whole purpose as an adult is to blend into the crowd. As long as the country is predominantly white, his current "ethnicity" (quotes definitely intentional) is perfectly fine.

Now, come the year 2042 (when current trends point to a future non-white majority in the US), that may be a different story.

[DochaDocha]

A poor white person will still have privilege that a poor person of color doesn't. Being poor does not mean racial privilege is no longer a factor.



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-...b_5269255.html

And here's another reason I don't like the idea of using the expression "white privilege": I feel like people out there want to keep score, and as long as your score is above a certain number, your problems are moot. When said under best intentions, identifying "white privilege" asks white people to try to understand inherent disadvantages non-whites have to go through. I get that, it's asking them to be more thoughtful. This is a good thing. I just find it highly ironic and insensitive if some people say, "Yeah, you're destitute, and you don't know when your next meal will be, and you were born stupid and lack access to good education, but you're white so it could be a whole lot worse." There's something to be said about telling people to count their blessings, but at least in my experience, "white privilege" is rarely said in a fashion to show sympathy or compassion for others, and sadly, mostly bitterness and disdain. It makes me sad.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Only if the difference in their wealth is truly negligible. Wealth matters more than race.

Eh, it's not that simple.

These things intersect. For example, poor POCs are generally poorer than poor white people.

And there's stuff like this.

In some ways, though, discrimination against people of color is more complicated and fundamental than economic inequality. A stark new finding epitomizes that reality: In recent decades, rich black kids have been more likely to go to prison than poor white kids.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c3165cf85feb

A richer person of color does have more advantages than a poorer white person in the US. And as a person of color who is neither white nor black, I can tell when and how I get treated differently than either. Wealth (and the appearance of it) plays a bigger role than race in this country in most situations.

Whatever advantages they have would be on the basis of class, not race.

Class inequality and class privilege shouldn't be used to downplay white privilege.

But it does mean that said privilege, while not truly eliminated, gets dramatically reduced the poorer you are.

More like they don't have class privilege.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

And here's another reason I don't like the idea of using the expression "white privilege": I feel like people out there want to keep score, and as long as your score is above a certain number, your problems are moot. When said under best intentions, identifying "white privilege" asks white people to try to understand inherent disadvantages non-whites have to go through. I get that, it's asking them to be more thoughtful. This is a good thing. I just find it highly ironic and insensitive if some people say, "Yeah, you're destitute, and you don't know when your next meal will be, and you were born stupid and lack access to good education, but you're white so it could be a whole lot worse." There's something to be said about telling people to count their blessings, but at least in my experience, "white privilege" is rarely said in a fashion to show sympathy or compassion for others, and sadly, mostly bitterness and disdain. It makes me sad.

I wouldn't phrase it like that.

More like, understanding problems on a wider level so that we better work towards solving them. Dealing with poverty without addressing race would only serve one aspect of the problem.

[DochaDocha]

I wouldn't phrase it like that.

More like, understanding problems on a wider level so that we better work towards solving them. Dealing with poverty without addressing race would only serve one aspect of the problem.

Fair enough.

I think there's a middle ground, of course. Superman should not be the subject of a story where he has to deal with day-to-day struggle of racial, gender, sexual orientation, or physical ability discrimination. That'd just seem utterly tone deaf. Strictly on the topic of xenophobia, he's not good subject matter as far as being the victim of it (whereas Luthor would be fine as a character who perpetuates the problem). If you focus on other aspects in which Superman's life might not be so ideal, you can still tell good stories that don't get drowned out just because he does represent a highly-privileged class.

[JAK]

Lol thanks. So many grammatical errors in that quote. I just get so fed up with that specific line of thinking. I know people mean well when they bring it up, but I just can't deal with the weird almost high horse that comes with the opinion. It's like they think they're doing people like me and my parents a favor, but in fact it's condescending, insulting, and unintentionally racist.

I'm constantly wondering why Martian Manhunter isn't getting this particular push. I'd be all for it because it's not narratively inept, and it builds on what IS a core aspect of the character.

Actually, yeah - MM would be a perfect fit for the narrative, and it's built into the character so it won't seem forced. Plus, his presence on the Supergirl TV show has likely introduced some people to him - and the show does touch on some of it as well, so it would also feel like a logical progression.

[Superlad93]

Actually, yeah - MM would be a perfect fit for the narrative, and it's built into the character so it won't seem forced. Plus, his presence on the Supergirl TV show has likely introduced some people to him - and the show does touch on some of it as well, so it would also feel like a logical progression.

The concept of W.E.B. Dubois' double consciousness being filtered through a telepathic alien shape shifter seems like one of those "oh, yeah, I write for a freakin' living" idea that I sincerely pray to God I'm not the first or last to see the connection. That's not even getting into the concepts of green and white martians. There's a hilarious amount of potential for MM to tackle these issues FAR better than Superman. But, no, lets try and fit a square peg in a round hole, and then get mad at the hole for being round. MM: The Square Hole.

[JAK]

The concept of W.E.B. Dubois' double consciousness being filtered through a telepathic alien shape shifter seems like one of those "oh, yeah, I write for a freakin' living" idea that I sincerely pray to God I'm not the first or last to see the connection. That's not even getting into the concepts of green and white martians. There's a hilarious amount of potential for MM to tackle these issues FAR better than Superman. But, no, lets try and fit a square peg in a round hole, and then get mad at the hole for being round. MM: The Square Hole.

LOL! That's awesome!

Though, to be nit-picky, characters used to make points are considered a tool to do so.. so I guess MM and CK would be the pegs, and it's "our" (collective) fault for grabbing the wrong peg.

And with all the sexual assault allegations going around in the news these days, "don't grab the wrong peg" kinda works as a general life lesson, too. One that, I'll grant you, you'd think we should know by now, but still. (it's not like you see people using that as an origin story of how they built their moral code after doing such a thing, after all)

Ok, I'll shut up now. lol

[Kuwagaton]

\ It's like they think they're doing people like me and my parents a favor, but in fact it's condescending, insulting, and unintentionally racist.

Agreed. As another son of black immigrants, I do find it backwards to imply that my ability to relate to a character has anything to do with my skin color or specific cultural background. Superman, depicted as a white midwesterner, is my favorite fictional character. I've never been so attached to any character that I'm against changing them to tell a different story, but there's nothing wrong with keeping the character as he is.

[The World]

While I get what Jiminez and the other poster were going for I think they missed the point of the character and to be fair I think a lot of people at DC going back many years have missed the point.

The point of the character is that no matter what privileged the character may benefit from he was always trying to solve the inherit problems of the world he landed in. He was able to recognize that things were awful on Earth and tried to make it better. Problem with the character now is that he's much more self focused than he use to be and DC doesn't seem to see that.

[sakuyamons]

I'm honestly not a fan of aliens being metaphors for xenophobia -- though MM is better to handle the topic than Superman.

Coming to the topic, I'm latina, but I'm also white. Back in my country, I'd obviously have privileges over other people, mainly because of the idea of "Mejorar la raza" which tends to be that the lighter you are, the better. Moving to America, I've been mocked by my accent and being told that they don't understand me in a very rude way, but I still have privileges over brown or afro-latinos. This doesn't mean the hispanic community is exempt of racism, in fact, some of them are. I think xenophobia is a problem that happens to immigrants despite all races, but race plays a key role in xenophobia, and this is not only about black people, but about the asian perspective as well. Hell, even Irish immigrants suffered of prejudice (though I don't know why. I mean, I don't really know US history, so I don't know if there's history behind that).

Same applies to LGBT issues, though the LGBT tends to have a history of power dynamics that aren't related to race, with essentially the G (and sometimes the L) tending to have a more prominent role and erasing the other two. I think Superman should Champion for the Oppressed and all of that, maybe going back to it's roots regarding the feeling of diaspora (which reminds me -- who thought it was a good idea having Frank Miller of all people to write a Superman in WWII?).

It might be because I'm used to see Superman white, but I think everyone can relate to him if they really tackle his immigrant past (that hasn't really been touched with Rebirth). Once, when asked if Luke Skywalker was gay, Mark Hamill answered that he was meant to relate to the audience, and if someone thought Luke was gay "...then of course he's gay!". Maybe that angle can also apply to Supes?