Detective Comics #969 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[Assam]

If you're a fan of the character then it is.

Not agreeing with a character and not finding them likable does not equate to them being poorly written.

That said, this story has bigger flaws (only seeing bits and pieces of it) and it really should have been saved for when Steph was more firmly established in the new continuity. Because yes, while it's more than fine to write a character that isn't "endearing", it isn't doing her any favors when it comes to growing her fanbase.

[Barbatos666]

Damian can be unlikable and endearing,Steph is just a moron here.

[Assam]

Steph is just a moron here.

That's definitely what this book's detractors think. However, the important thing is that she isn't being presented as being in the right, or at least not even close to being entirely right. You do not have to like or even agree with a character's actions in order for them to be classified as well written.

[Barbatos666]

Except when characters are in the wrong they face the music. They dont press buttons and defeat everyone. By the look of things its Clayface and Kate who will face the music while Steph goes back to smooching Tim.

[Caivu]

Except when characters are in the wrong they face the music. They dont press buttons and defeat everyone. By the look of things its Clayface and Kate who will face the music while Steph goes back to smooching Tim.

Not always, they don't. And you're jumping to conclusions here.

[Assam]

Except when characters are in the wrong they face the music. They dont press buttons and defeat everyone. By the look of things its Clayface and Kate who will face the music

So...do you not want Steph back on the team? I thought you said you were a fan of her's. Yes, Kate and Basil look to be leaving, but that's most likely because one is gonna kill the other (I think so at least). Steph is looking to come back to the team, and she may very well face consequences, maybe she won't (It's not as if characters who make mistakes ALWAYS get punished), we don't yet.

Steph goes back to smooching Tim.

And that's the problem when you get down to it. This is something Millernumber1 brought up a LONG time ago and I like to bring it up as well. Basically, while I do still think this story in particular should have been saved...Tynion had to do something. In the first arc, people liked her, but no one was really excited about her except people who were already fans. And the reason is because there, she was nothing but Tim's bubbly girlfriend. The fact is that while Steph with her history is an interesting and inspiring character, without it, she's about as generic a teen girl hero as you can find.

Again, I don't think this was particularly well executed, but I do understand why they decided to do it.

[Barbatos666]

Ofcourse I want her back, I'm just saying that the story given to her was not good at all. I think of all the characters Tynion is using Steph's arc is the worst and does her no favors.

[Assam]

Ofcourse I want her back, I'm just saying that the story given to her was not good at all. I think of all the characters Tynion is using Steph's arc is the worst and does her no favors.

I still say Tim's arc was easily the worst.

[Barbatos666]

I still say Tim's arc was easily the worst.

Tim's journey from Rise of the Batmen to Lonely Place of Living was atleast an epic even if in the superficial sense. He went from Point A to Point B and learned something in the process. He got his origin back and the seeds for the return of his best friends were planted. Plus he got a good look at himself as Batman.

[Assam]

Tim's journey from Rise of the Batmen to Lonely Place of Living was atleast an epic even if in the superficial sense.

"An epic". "Superficial". Well, one of these descriptions is certainly true.

He went from Point A to Point B and learned something in the process.

All while being written incredibly poorly. And what exactly did he learn? Hell, he didn't even go from point A to Point B. He went from Point A to nowhere to back to Point A.

He got his origin back

I award this no points.

and the seeds for the return of his best friends were planted.

And when something actually comes from this, we'll see if it was even necessary.

Plus he got a good look at himself as Batman.

If you're raising this as a point because it brought up Tim's desire not to be Batman...yeah, we already knew that was a thing.

[Barbatos666]

Well you may not like it but getting his classic origin back and setting up the YJ 4 are a big deal. Tynion's Tim isn't a good character but Tynion is giving him and Kate Toys to play with.

[KrustyKid]

"An epic". "Superficial". Well, one of these descriptions is certainly true.



All while being written incredibly poorly. And what exactly did he learn? Hell, he didn't even go from point A to Point B. He went from Point A to nowhere to back to Point A.



I award this no points.




And when something actually comes from this, we'll see if it was even necessary.



If you're raising this as a point because it brought up Tim's desire not to be Batman...yeah, we already knew that was a thing.

I disagree with the bold. Everything Tim saw with his future-self put's everything he's done, everything he had planned to do into question. That in itself could prompt him to change who he is, not necessarily as a person, but on how he will choose to operate as far as the streets are concerned going forward. That isn't circling back to point A, he's changed from the experiences he's gone through. Gaining his pre-52 origin back is also a plus.

As far as Steph is concerned. I'll wait until this arc has reached it's conclusion before I really speak on the matter. If anything, at least Steph isn't Batgirl 2.0 or just another one of Batman's trusty sidekicks through all of these proceedings.

[dietrich]

I am fan of Steph... I am sure, that Steph bad luck will finish this saga, sure.. Tim is here again..

I'm hoping we get real Steph now. She hasn't been herself under this writer even before she went berserk

[adrikito]

I'm hoping we get real Steph now. She hasn't been herself under this writer even before she went berserk

¿? We don´t need the REAL STEPH(That change with writers), She is Tynion Steph..

For need the REAL STEPH she will be trapped in the current Batgirls comics... I am sad and furious for see Barbara Gordon situation since burnside begin..

Fortunatelly, Steph and Cass(two ex-batgirls) were saved from burnside..

[Assam]

I'm hoping we get real Steph now. She hasn't been herself under this writer even before she went berserk

Thing is, there is no "real Steph". There are two. While she's still recognizably the same character, SpoilerSteph and BatgirlSteph are incredibly different. And while a lot of people are disappointed in TynionSteph because she doesn't act like how she did as Batgirl, that's just because Tynion has always preferred her as Spoiler, so that's where he's taking inspiration from. Is she as well written here as she was by the likes of Dixon, Lewis and Puckett? Of course not, but two out of three of those comparisons just aren't fair.