Should the "S" be a Kryptonian symbol?

[Jon Clark]

Of course, Jon Clark, being a Superman history scholar, is referring to the Sword of Superman, from "The Day the Cheering Stopped," SUPERMAN ANNUAL No. 10 (1984). A pretty daft plot by Elliot S! Maggin, but boasting some great Swanderson art. The story makes no sense but it's pretty to look at.

Is it really being a historian when you are just "old as dirt" and actually just remember things that happened?

And that was the story that pushed Maggin from his perch as "best Superman writer of his generation" in my mind. I find I want Superman to be a powerful myth, but not one that is pre-ordained by everyone from the Guardians to Kryptonian geneology to the Presence.

Just to elaborate a little on topic: he idea was that a sword was formed by implication in the Big Bang. Said sword had the classic Superman crest on it. The sword was in the mythology of civilizations across creation. And when Clark was searching for a symbol, the sword put the idea in Jonathan Kent's mind for the classic Superman insignia. During the course of this story the sword wound up in Superman's hands allowing him to defeat an opponent. And at the moment of his win, it offered Superman infinite power (which he refused). Basically God (if you believe in the concept) created a sword at the dawn of time which was intended for Kal-El as both an inspiration and a divine test. This sword spread the legend of Superman and his identifying symbol before Krypton was even populated. And people thought the Movie(s) laid it on thick with the Jesus analogies.

[Jim Kelly]

There were a lot of big whoppers about Jesus that were too big even for the biblical canon and became apocrypha. In this way they resemble other big whoppers about gods and heroes that have been told over the course of human history, but taken with a molecule of NaCl. So I'm not sure Maggin's big whopper is a Jesus big whopper. I think it's just the more general sort that could be applied to Apollo or Paul Bunyan. And probably what Maggin was trying to do was ape the big whoppers told by Mark Twain.

In any event this story happened in 1984, during the lame duck period, when it didn't really matter what yarns they told, because they knew it was all going pear shaped very soon.

[Soubhagya]

There's so many variations on the Christian cross (to pick a particularly well-known symbol), and they didn't happen all within a single generation, though some have. Variations are known worldwide however. The Gnostic Cross, Celtic Cross and others all convey different things, but all can be found within the contemporary world. I suppose I'm positing that the "S" be a version of that. Less religious, obviously, since Raoism is probably more traditional than actually religious by the time ultra-scientific Krypton blows up.

I will say, in regard to Jor's chest emblem, I've always liked the ringed planet over either the sun or the "S", but I like the idea that Kal's cape was originally his birth-father's.

I agree with you. There are variations of the same symbol. You have proved your point. I think that Superman would not wish to change it himself. We are focusing on Superman himself here. Its too special for someone like Superman.

I agree about the cape. I don't actually hate it when the symbol is from Krypton. It has a mythological feel in it. But when the Kents work together and come out with the costume there's a warmth and love associated with them. A mother's love is what Superman's costume is. He may achieve tremendous feats but he still is his father's and his mother's son. I am in love with this aspect of Superman.

In the same way i love the cape to be from Krypton. I prefer it when its blanket for Lara and Zor-El' s small baby. One can't imagine giving up one's child so that the child can live. Its beautiful when its a blanket for their baby. I agree about the cape. Its special.

I have one problem with the cape. Its this. The image of a torn cape is too good. It shall not happen always. But when it happens it can be used to show the enormity of the situation. That Superman is truly challenged by someone. I like this image. But then what happens to the cape? Its from his parents. I don't wish it to be destroyed in any way. How to reconcile the two ideas? Or we end up with the indestructible cape which is fine actually but i don't think after the 'Death of Superman' such an image can be forgotten and DC won't return to the image of a torn cape.

I prefer the simple 'S' for Superman. But don't hate it when its from Krypton. The only time i hate it is when the suit along with the 'S' is but an old costume from a 20000 year old Kryptonian ship as in Man of Steel film.

[Jim Kelly]

The thing with Christian crosses is that it's very important when they are changed, that usually means a schism in the Church and these crosses often end up representing different cults.

In the old days, while everything from Krypton was indestructible, Superman was able to unravel the fibres of his baby blankets/costume. I think he could even break threads with an intense blast of his heat vision. He would then stretch and weave those fibres to alter his costume. So it makes sense that if his cape or outfit was torn, then he would just make the necessary repairs in this way.

I wonder where his boots came from, now that I think of it. His belt was the seat belt from the rocket-ship, but what material did he use for his boots? The seat cushions?

[Kuwagaton]

Is it really being a historian when you are just "old as dirt" and actually just remember things that happened?

And that was the story that pushed Maggin from his perch as "best Superman writer of his generation" in my mind. I find I want Superman to be a powerful myth, but not one that is pre-ordained by everyone from the Guardians to Kryptonian geneology to the Presence.

Just to elaborate a little on topic: he idea was that a sword was formed by implication in the Big Bang. Said sword had the classic Superman crest on it. The sword was in the mythology of civilizations across creation. And when Clark was searching for a symbol, the sword put the idea in Jonathan Kent's mind for the classic Superman insignia. During the course of this story the sword wound up in Superman's hands allowing him to defeat an opponent. And at the moment of his win, it offered Superman infinite power (which he refused). Basically God (if you believe in the concept) created a sword at the dawn of time which was intended for Kal-El as both an inspiration and a divine test. This sword spread the legend of Superman and his identifying symbol before Krypton was even populated. And people thought the Movie(s) laid it on thick with the Jesus analogies.

I always thought Bates was better. Not because of a technical thing, but in a case like this... I compare "the Day The Cheering Stopped!" to "The Second Coming of Superman!" The latter doesn't go from a plain attempt to elaborate and enrich a mythos to something ridiculous. It's just out and out ridiculous, and it's great fun. I do like both stories and of course, neither story is deeply intentional in relating to (Christian) religion.

I can accept the Sword of Superman where I don't quite like the family crest/old hope idea because it doesn't hinge on sheer coincidence.

The only time i hate it is when the suit along with the 'S' is but an old costume from a 20000 year old Kryptonian ship as in Man of Steel film.

My understanding was that it was part of a wacky space warp. In some versions, Krypton's explosion wasn't literally the same point in time as when the Kents found him.

[superduperman]

The thing with Christian crosses is that it's very important when they are changed, that usually means a schism in the Church and these crosses often end up representing different cults.

In the old days, while everything from Krypton was indestructible, Superman was able to unravel the fibres of his baby blankets/costume. I think he could even break threads with an intense blast of his heat vision. He would then stretch and weave those fibres to alter his costume. So it makes sense that if his cape or outfit was torn, then he would just make the necessary repairs in this way.

I wonder where his boots came from, now that I think of it. His belt was the seat belt from the rocket-ship, but what material did he use for his boots? The seat cushions?

The boots were made from the leather of seat in the rocket. The making his costume out of the indestructible baby blankets never made much sense to me because what did she sew them up with? An Earth needle that can't penetrate them? And this is one of the things they brought back in SO!

[Kuwagaton]

The needle itself was made by a rocket fragment shaped by young Kal, at least in one version.

But yeah, can of worms. Because if the strength of Kryptonian items is proportionate, how did he tear up all that material? He was like 8 tearing apart a rocket ship just as powerful from the sun as he was.

[Jim Kelly]

Bates was a good plotter. Maggin was a good scripter.

Comic books have a lot of "tarzan" moments. I get this from a book on ERB by Dick Lupoff that I read in the '70s--in that book he points out that when Tarzan puts a note on the door that Jane reads, he spells out his name as "TARZAN" yet he would have no way of knowing what those letters sound like, having not yet learned English pronunciation for the books he read in his father's cabin. Lupoff equates this to the glass slipper in Cinderella. Everything else was transformed back to its original state at midnight, but not the glass slipper. The point is the stories need these inconsistencies or else they can't happen.

[Kuwagaton]

Which is why I always hoped those nitpicky reader letters from Pasko were made in jest back in the day, because the same sort of things will always happen. In a story like Superman, there will just always be things that don't really make sense.

If they play the Kryptonian symbol thing for a joke, like Morrison sort of did, I like it. When they posit that it's this mighty symbol of hope or heritage and make a big deal out of ignoring the simple point that "S is for Superman" then I don't like it.