Readers of Doomsday Clock all SPOILERS thread

[CaptCleghorn]

Being overly fixated on the JSA, I went back over the scenes and switching around of Superman and them as reboots and recons shuffled their histories. I find the lack of mention of different Earths interesting. The original JSA was shown to want to get Superman (an Honorary member) in the first scene. This is followed up by a JSA who did not know who Superman was (the post-Crisis JSA). Superman's appearance in 1955 was meant to signify Earth One and future scenes reflect the changing post-Crisis combined Earth. And the 31st Century Legion appearance ignores the time-shuffling of that franchise being locked 1,000 years after the present year.

The only connecting factor I think I get is the focus on the primary Earth DC was using at the time. What Manhattan saw as a sudden disappearance of Superman in 1940 was something we knew to be a combination of multiple Earths and a reshuffling of the timeline. Is there a reason this was ignored? Now, I realize that an academic look at what Earth when would appeal to many of us on these boards, but to the readers of Doomsday Clock or even evergreen readers years in the future, maybe not.

I suspect there's a reasoning to Manhattan's odd focus. Or at least I hope so. If this is the resolution to the missing years and a supposed "fix" of continuity questions, the explicit spelling out of the situation has some meaning.

[CaptCleghorn]

The idea that Dr. Manhattan's inaction is juxtaposed by Superman's action-packed life is even more important when you consider that Kal-L was sent to Earth as its last son because of the inaction of Krypton's leaders.

There's layers upon layers to this story.

There are certainly layers and if Superman had appeared in Adventure Comics, the title would be appropriate. Action is issue 10 and Crisis in issue 9 both share DC comic titles with story content.

[blunt_eastwood]

Action being the Superman book. A story extolling the importance of Superman being called "Action" is very fitting.

I misread what you said. I thought you were talking about the name Doomsday Clock.

[baltiroo]

So we finally got the tenth issue of Doomsday Clock. Any bets on seeing the series finish before the end of the year? We give a pretty good review/summary in the video I'm sharing and would enjoy any thoughts about it as well. The concept of metaverse is quite interesting and I'm glad we got more about Manhattan here.

[Dataweaver]

To be fair, the concept of the Metaverse isn't new: ever since 52 introduced the new Multiverse back in 2006, it's been a given that the Primary Earth is central to the Multiverse, and that the other worlds are in various ways echoes of it, changing in ways to reflect what happens to it. Heck, the Hot Pursuit storyline in Flash that lead up to Flashpoint explicitly said that when reality shifts on Earth-0, it reverberates throughout the Multiverse. And that was further stated as the reason for the Earth 2 reboot in the New 52: it's not like some specific crisis hit Earth 2 and rebooted it; Flashpoint and its aftermath altered Earth 0, and Earth 2 changed along with it.

And it wasn't just Earth 2: when Multiversity came out, Morrison showed several Earths that had changed from how they had originally been conceived. Several Earths flat-out got replaced, like the Dark Knight Earth being replaced by a “Pirate Batman” Earth or the Wildstorm Earth being replaced by a Justice Lords Earth. Other changes weren't as radical, but were still significant, such as what was done to the Justice Riders Earth.

[baltiroo]

To be fair, the concept of the Metaverse isn't new: ever since 52 introduced the new Multiverse back in 2006, it's been a given that the Primary Earth is central to the Multiverse, and that the other worlds are in various ways echoes of it, changing in ways to reflect what happens to it. Heck, the Hot Pursuit storyline in Flash that lead up to Flashpoint explicitly said that when reality shifts on Earth-0, it reverberates throughout the Multiverse. And that was further stated as the reason for the Earth 2 reboot in the New 52: it's not like some specific crisis hot Earth 2 and rebooted it; Flashpoint and its aftermath altered Earth 0, and Earth 2 changed along with it.

And it wasn't just Earth 2: when Multiversity came out, Morrison showed several Earths that had changed from how they had originally been conceived. Several Earths flat-out got replaced, like the Dark Knight Earth being replaced by a “Pirate Batman” Earth or the Wildstorm Earth being replaced by a Justice Lords Earth. Other changes weren't as radical, but were still significant, such as what was done to the Justice Riders Earth.

Very true. I guess I should be more specific in the way they tie it to Superman singularly is interesting. It sets up the Manhattan versus Superman fight with more heat and depth than I would have originally imagined.

[Dataweaver]

Even that's not new: Infinite Crisis had a comment that for some reason, Superman is central to the DCU; and he used the two Supermen that he had on hand (the mainstream one and the Earth Two one) to jumpstart his creation of the Infinite Earths.

That's not to say that what Johns did in DC#10 isn't interesting; but it's not so much “new” as it is “clarifying”.

[MajorHoy]

Oh no, Manhattan is effecting our world too!!

At least blue DiDio has kept his clothes on . . .

[Eto]

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

This....this is gold. I’m stealing this.

[Dataweaver]

No, it's blue. And it's certainly not blue and gold.

So: September solicits have the Legion of Superheroes debuting in Millennium, and the Justice League hops to three different eras, past, present, and future. The team going into the past encounters the Justice Society.

What does this mean for Doomsday Clock?

[MajorHoy]

. . . What does this mean for Doomsday Clock?

Does it have to mean anything for Doomsday Cluck?

I mean, seriously, that book appears to be essentially an over-priced wankfest with pretty pictures. I had been tempted to buy issue #10 because I thought it was going to be important in terms of returning the JSA to the DC Universe, but when I looked through it in the store, it made little-to-no-sense in terms of what (if any?) purpose it served.

We waited three years for that moment?

WTF?!?

[Dataweaver]

Taking a somewhat less jaded tack:

I've been wondering about Johnny Thunder and Imra ever since the reveal that Manhattan's tampering flat-out removed both the JSA and the Legion from continuity. In particular, Wally's talk in DCU:Rebirth about how the JSA was a clandestine team of mystery men that helped end WWII and Johnny's talk about how his wish made the JSA vanish isn't compatible with the notion that the JSA isn't part of the timeline at all. It's possible that Wally's re-entry into the Metaverse triggered a minor retcon (not unlike the Prime Punches of Infinite Crisis infamy, but more subdued) that actually brought the JSA back into the Metaverse's timeline, albeit in a more covert fashion; but if so, why didn't Jon notice? Or did he, and he just hasn't acknowledged their return?

I wonder if Johns is going to end up having to end this series with a retcon that brings Doomsday Clock in line with what's being published now, instead of “what's being published now” lining up with the start of Doomsday Clock and then moving on from where it ends. That is, say that Doomsday Clock will alter the Metaverse's timeline at the end of the series, but the rest of the DCU that's being published is already in the post-Doomsday Clock timeline. Put another way, Doomsday Clock may end up being a (very near) alternate future that's about to mostly erase itself.

[JonaX]

Taking a somewhat less jaded tack:

I've been wondering about Johnny Thunder and Imra ever since the reveal that Manhattan's tampering flat-out removed both the JSA and the Legion from continuity. In particular, Wally's talk in DCU:Rebirth about how the JSA was a clandestine team of mystery men that helped end WWII and Johnny's talk about how his wish made the JSA vanish isn't compatible with the notion that the JSA isn't part of the timeline at all. It's possible that Wally's re-entry into the Metaverse triggered a minor retcon (not unlike the Prime Punches of Infinite Crisis infamy, but more subdued) that actually brought the JSA back into the Metaverse's timeline, albeit in a more covert fashion; but if so, why didn't Jon notice? Or did he, and he just hasn't acknowledged their return?

I wonder if Johns is going to end up having to end this series with a retcon that brings Doomsday Clock in line with what's being published now, instead of “what's being published now” lining up with the start of Doomsday Clock and then moving on from where it ends. That is, say that Doomsday Clock will alter the Metaverse's timeline at the end of the series, but the rest of the DCU that's being published is already in the post-Doomsday Clock timeline. Put another way, Doomsday Clock may end up being a (very near) alternate future that's about to mostly erase itself.

I think Wally's return was part of the Metaverse fighting back against Manhattan along with Johnny's memories and Irma coming to the present.

[Dataweaver]

I think Wally's return was part of the Metaverse fighting back against Manhattan along with Johnny's memories and Irma coming to the present.

Yeah; I'm figuring the same thing; I'm just wondering how extensive the initial pushback was: was it just Wally, Johnny's memories, and Imra? Or did Johnny's new memories come with a restoration of sorts of the JSA, and Imra's arrival include a restoration of the LoSH? I'm guessing the former, with the plan being that both teams will be restored by the end of Doomsday Clock. (Recall that Doomsday Clock has established that Jon removed the LoSH from the timeline when he removed the JSA.)

But my main issue has to do with how Doomsday Clock will end up fitting into the resulting timeline, and whether or not we're already reading about the resulting timeline in the other titles I mentioned (Justice League and the upcoming Legion of Superheroes: Millennium series). Once this series concludes, will everything else start referencing events from it as things that have already happened? Will they “skip forward a year” and say that Doomsday Clock happened in the interim? Or will they ignore Doomsday Clock entirely and proceed as if the JSA was never removed from the past?

[MajorHoy]

Any developments with the JSA?

Lots and lots of JSA stuff this issue and it was all wonderful.

I'm still at a loss as to how there were "lots and lots of JSA stuff" in the few pages they were shown in.