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  1. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    So, are you saying that the Wally West who went all psycho in Heroes in Crisis and killed all the others in Sanctuary was really . . . we the readers?!?
    And that somehow, we framed/blamed other people for the outcome. Interesting.

  2. #1157
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    Aphorisms regarding the Meta-verse

    I have a hard time equating the metaverse to Earth 0, and this is how I understand it.
    The term 'meta' means 'beyond', and it is also commonly used to describe any X object about X itself (a book about books, a film about films, etc.)

    I posit that the Meta-verse is the DCU as WE (inhabitants of Earth-33) have been experiencing it. For us, Superman has arrived on Earth an X number of times, but on Earth 0, it is always ''a new story, and all that came before is rebooted, gone''. It is always the ''continuity du jour''.

    In the meta-verse, Manhattan realises that it is always the same Superman, but on Earth-0, it is always a ''new one'' : wrestler maximus, silver age, byrne's, morrison's, etc....

    When Wally ''appears'', it is the speed force being summoned as a sort of antibody, and Wally was to bring back the info that the very backbone of their existence was being tampered with.

    We haven't proper had the JSA nor the Legion for a very long time in our Earth-33 time because Dr. Manhattan is experimenting with the meta-verse.

    Manhattan recognises anti-monitor and others as agents of the reboots, but it seems as if these are ''natural occurrences'' that help push Kal-el's arrival ever so in step with our Earth-33 flux of time. But it is when HE, a totally foreign body, interferes that the meta-verse seems to react organically (Is the bleed the blood of the meta-verse?)

    It is when cynicism-via-manhattan enters the DCU that the DCU reacts. Is the DCU-metaverse sick since 'the dark knight returned'?


    this is a beautiful, DEEP comic book.
    I love the experience. and the 'delays' do not bother me (well, recently the have since I think it's Didio being a Didiot and purposefully delaying them).

  3. #1158
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Do you know what the most tragic thing about this story is? that I can actually see that it started out with noble intentions and could have been something great but then they pissed it all away by adding the murder mystery and leaving Wally to rot in a cell before he is forced to join the Suicide Squad.

  4. #1159
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Do you know what the most tragic thing about this story is? that I can actually see that it started out with noble intentions and could have been something great but then they pissed it all away by adding the murder mystery and leaving Wally to rot in a cell before he is forced to join the Suicide Squad.
    Wrong thread.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  5. #1160
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Wrong thread.
    It's not irrelevant. Seeing Wally here as representing one thing, then seeing what happened to him in that other series ultimately feeds into the overall meaning of "DC", does it not? I wonder if we'll see a "post HiC" Wally here since it's suppose to be a year in the future. Could the connectivity of these series explain the various delays?

  6. #1161
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    . . . Could the connectivity of these series explain the various delays?
    I'm not reading either series at present, but what "connectivity" was there between the two beyond both of the latest issues having their dates delayed so they wound up shipping the same week (a 5th Wednesday of the month)?

  7. #1162
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Doomsday Clock has referenced the massacre at Sanctuary.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  8. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    It's not irrelevant. Seeing Wally here as representing one thing, then seeing what happened to him in that other series ultimately feeds into the overall meaning of "DC", does it not? I wonder if we'll see a "post HiC" Wally here since it's suppose to be a year in the future. Could the connectivity of these series explain the various delays?
    I too believe that Didio is deliberately sabotaging 'Doomsday Clock' by delaying therefore hoping the readership doesn't attach too much importance. He's not succeeding as issue #10 reviews have blown all the 'HiC' storyline (for want of a better word) out of the water. I'm sorry but how can anyone defend ' HiC' is beyond me. It's awful. King is no' John's, Synder or Morrison. Sometimes Morrison's work goes over my head and I have to read again and read others breakdowns, but it's a fun challenging experience. You can read a Morrison over and over again, gleaning different things each time. King' s work can come across as just pretentious and pompous. Only finishing his Batman run as I have invested up to issue #50 (turning point) and the art can be it's saving grace, but sick of the same old tropes' nine panel layout, with characters sprouting rubbish and then there's the overuse of poetry. 'Doomsday Clock' is great storytelling whilst paying homage and expanding on Moore's original story. Wonder what he makes of it?

  9. #1164
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franny6422 View Post
    I too believe that Didio is deliberately sabotaging 'Doomsday Clock' by delaying therefore hoping the readership doesn't attach too much importance. He's not succeeding as issue #10 reviews have blown all the 'HiC' storyline (for want of a better word) out of the water. I'm sorry but how can anyone defend ' HiC' is beyond me. It's awful. King is no' John's, Synder or Morrison. Sometimes Morrison's work goes over my head and I have to read again and read others breakdowns, but it's a fun challenging experience. You can read a Morrison over and over again, gleaning different things each time. King' s work can come across as just pretentious and pompous. Only finishing his Batman run as I have invested up to issue #50 (turning point) and the art can be it's saving grace, but sick of the same old tropes' nine panel layout, with characters sprouting rubbish and then there's the overuse of poetry. 'Doomsday Clock' is great storytelling whilst paying homage and expanding on Moore's original story. Wonder what he makes of it?
    At least I don't think DiDio has claimed that Heroes in Crisis was "Doomsday Clock done right"!

  10. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    At least I don't think DiDio has claimed that Heroes in Crisis was "Doomsday Clock done right"!
    LMAO Time yet! Personally, I read the fuss about 'Countdown' so read myself. Just a couple of issues and I thought 'why the damnation?' I read on and 'oh' that's why!' What a mess. Favourite line " I'll kill you to death" or something like that. LMAO

  11. #1166
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    I liked this issue, and I’ve disliked Doomsday Clock up to now. I couldnt understand what the glue was holding it all together, but issue #10 showed me the glue.

    I liked that this is a story of Doctor Manhattan flitting through the Multiverse and then noticing the Metaverse (I assume is bigger and more encompassing than the Multiverse) was giving him trouble. We see the way Manhattan switches between alternate universes, and he is navigating it by using Carver Colman, a rather innocuous character, as his example/anchor while encountering Superman and the Justice League Of America. I am going to have to go back to all those previous issues and try to see Manhattan swimming through alternate universes to see if any of this makes sense.

    I haven’t worked out that Manhattan isn’t the man of action and Superman is, except to say Manhattan recognises Superman is the anchor of all alternative universes and if he does something, it changes all universes. I think Manhattan is impressed by Superman in this regard. (As a Marvel fan, I find Superman being the director of all the Multiverse a little cloying, but Superman was the first superhero, so he gets to be the director).

    I’m not convinced Manhattan can be considered a villain yet. Manhattans frame of mind was altered by his condition brought on by the accident. I think he’s one of those higher order beings now, where action or interference in characters or society means nothing to him anymore, and I think we have to accept that. It’s like in Marvel terms Manhattan has become a Guardian of the universe - he doesn’t see down below into the microbe world of humans. He looks like he is going to graduate into another order of being after this. Much like in the Marvel event Civil War 11 from 2015, when Ulysses, the future predictor, got invited into the fraternity of Universe protectors.
    Last edited by jackolover; 06-01-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  12. #1167
    Incredible Member blunt_eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonaX View Post
    The blurb from issue 11 does say the truth behind Rebirth is revealed so I'm guessing Manhattan tried to counteract the Metaverse fighting back against his changes by meddling in other events such as saving Jor-El and turning him into Mr Oz, killing Pandora and also saving the Comedian and bringing him to the DC Universe, I hope they explain how the Button ended up in the Batcave.
    I re-read Rebirth tonight and I believe it's explained in that issue. When Wally contacted Bruce he opened a portal to the place between dimensions and the button flew into the DCU from the Watchmen universe. I believe it's even shown happening in the below panel.

    rebirth capture.jpg

  13. #1168
    Incredible Member blunt_eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I can't believe the significance of the story title took so long to sink in.
    What is it? I thought it was referring to the countdown to the point in time when Manhattan can't see the future anymore.

  14. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunt_eastwood View Post
    What is it? I thought it was referring to the countdown to the point in time when Manhattan can't see the future anymore.
    Action being the Superman book. A story extolling the importance of Superman being called "Action" is very fitting.

  15. #1170
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Action being the Superman book. A story extolling the importance of Superman being called "Action" is very fitting.
    The idea that Dr. Manhattan's inaction is juxtaposed by Superman's action-packed life is even more important when you consider that Kal-L was sent to Earth as its last son because of the inaction of Krypton's leaders.

    There's layers upon layers to this story.

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