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  1. #1006
    God Body DIVINITY's Avatar
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    The delays definitely suck, but man, this last issue was really good...
    #StayValiant

  2. #1007
    Incredible Member Slim Shady's Avatar
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    Seems like Manhattan has a bit of, a curiosity about Superman. He’s mentioned him a few times. He’s had the visions. Something is gonna go down with them.

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    He was able to destroy Guy's ring but remarked that he couldn't control the energy of the emotional spectrum. Maybe that'll play a role somehow?
    That makes sense. Didn't Manhattan interfere somehow with Kyle so that the White Lantern ring was off the table? I didn't read the issue but I think I heard something about that back at the beginning of Rebirth.

  4. #1009
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    He was able to destroy Guy's ring but remarked that he couldn't control the energy of the emotional spectrum. Maybe that'll play a role somehow?
    Manhattan has pretty much lost his humanity. Hes beyond emotion. The only thing that drives him is curiosity.

  5. #1010
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Wasn't the rumor that they were courting Hickman to do it but he signed with Marvel and the book got torpedoed because of it?
    Don't know about Hickman specifically, but the JSA returning in their own series was an idea that Bleeding Cool put out there more than once:
    February 2, 2016: DC Comics Rebirth A New Justice Society Of America Ongoing Title To Launch
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02...tle-to-launch/

    March 2, 2017: Justice Society Of America Comic "Already Planned"
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...ready-planned/

  6. #1011
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Wasn't the rumor that they were courting Hickman to do it but he signed with Marvel and the book got torpedoed because of it?
    IIRC, the Hickman rumors were about a Legion book, not a JSA book. Which would have been great and a nice showcase for his talents.

  7. #1012
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Okay, so as part of my big Rebirth/Doomsday Clock refresh, I've now re-read The Button, Doomsday Clock #1-9, and, most recently, The Oz Effect.

    The Oz Effect, frankly, is not a particularly good story, but it does have some interesting ideas that may suggest that the various threads Johns has been planting are wider spread across the DCU than I originally thought.

    For instance, the Flashpoint Batman is now in the DCU, presumably due to Dr. Manhattan. He is part of Bane's overarching plot to break Batman's heart & soul, which also includes Skeets, who's playing a key role in Heroes in Crisis. There was also the Tim Drake subplot in which Mr. Oz faked Tim's death because "he was reconnecting too many friendships" and kept him imprisoned, along with Mr. Mxy.

    Over in Superman, Jor-El was saved from Krypton's destruction, again, presumably by Dr. Manhattan, and tortured into losing all hope in humanity and transformed into Mr. Oz. At the end of the Oz Effect, he was also being mentally controlled by his staff. The recently introduced villain Rogal Zharr has also been shown to have been under the influence of his own staff and claims to have known Jor-El. I don't believe this is a coincidence.

    We know that Johns, King, Bendis & Snyder have each worked out all the details of their various stories with each other. Is it possible that Doomsday Clock is not as self-contained as it might appear?

  8. #1013
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    We know that Johns, King, Bendis & Snyder have each worked out all the details of their various stories with each other. Is it possible that Doomsday Clock is not as self-contained as it might appear?
    Let me give that a firm maybe.

    It's very possible DClock will have lasting and important ramification for the rest of the DC Univ - no, DC Multiverse. As the concluding (?) part of Johns' Rebirth tale, it matters and may or may not be necessary, but probably helpful to at least have a rough idea about for other franchises. This doesn't mean that DClock can't exist as an evergreen tale where nothing else really needs to be read to make the story work.

    I really hope that this leads into quality runs of JSA and Legion. I'd imagine the Manhattan influence would at least be important to LSH, but considering how much the Ragnarok, Armageddon, and Zero Hour connections get mentioned, it's possible the Watchmen connect will disappear as quickly as Osterman's costume.

    My overall take (speculation, no sources): DClock may be helpful to some runs, but DClock can stand on its own.

  9. #1014
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Okay, so as part of my big Rebirth/Doomsday Clock refresh, I've now re-read The Button, Doomsday Clock #1-9, and, most recently, The Oz Effect.

    The Oz Effect, frankly, is not a particularly good story, but it does have some interesting ideas that may suggest that the various threads Johns has been planting are wider spread across the DCU than I originally thought.

    For instance, the Flashpoint Batman is now in the DCU, presumably due to Dr. Manhattan. He is part of Bane's overarching plot to break Batman's heart & soul, which also includes Skeets, who's playing a key role in Heroes in Crisis. There was also the Tim Drake subplot in which Mr. Oz faked Tim's death because "he was reconnecting too many friendships" and kept him imprisoned, along with Mr. Mxy.

    Over in Superman, Jor-El was saved from Krypton's destruction, again, presumably by Dr. Manhattan, and tortured into losing all hope in humanity and transformed into Mr. Oz. At the end of the Oz Effect, he was also being mentally controlled by his staff. The recently introduced villain Rogal Zharr has also been shown to have been under the influence of his own staff and claims to have known Jor-El. I don't believe this is a coincidence.

    We know that Johns, King, Bendis & Snyder have each worked out all the details of their various stories with each other. Is it possible that Doomsday Clock is not as self-contained as it might appear?
    The way you weave ideas together and explain it makes me believe that its not self-contained but for some reason I feel like Johns is simply going to ignore all that stuff. Jor-El and Batman's father have not yet been addressed or hinted at and I don't think they're going to be. However, I do expect the three Jokers to get a mention.

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    The way you weave ideas together and explain it makes me believe that its not self-contained but for some reason I feel like Johns is simply going to ignore all that stuff. Jor-El and Batman's father have not yet been addressed or hinted at and I don't think they're going to be. However, I do expect the three Jokers to get a mention.
    I hope not as I hope that Johns DOES reference the Father's of the World's Finest in Doomsday Clock at least a small reference would be nice.
    Right ?

  11. #1016
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    That makes sense. Didn't Manhattan interfere somehow with Kyle so that the White Lantern ring was off the table? I didn't read the issue but I think I heard something about that back at the beginning of Rebirth.
    Good point. It happened when Kyle was the White Lantern and tried to resurrect the BLUE Lanterns - the ones with the power of HOPE. Saint Walker said that "someone" stopped them, then Kyle's white rings split apart and Kyle became green again. Hope definitely seems to be an important theme of this story.

  12. #1017
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Good point. It happened when Kyle was the White Lantern and tried to resurrect the BLUE Lanterns - the ones with the power of HOPE. Saint Walker said that "someone" stopped them, then Kyle's white rings split apart and Kyle became green again. Hope definitely seems to be an important theme of this story.
    If hope is a part of the story, it seems both Ozymandias and Manhattan are working to remove that hope from the DC universe. Either through time messing or making Superman look bad. I have a thought I'm missing some very big facts here, but seeing two characters seemingly working against each other actually doing the same thing seems weirdd to me. What am I missing?

  13. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    If hope is a part of the story, it seems both Ozymandias and Manhattan are working to remove that hope from the DC universe. Either through time messing or making Superman look bad. I have a thought I'm missing some very big facts here, but seeing two characters seemingly working against each other actually doing the same thing seems weirdd to me. What am I missing?

    I don't think Ozy's plan is to remove hope, I think he's trying to prove a point to Dr Manhattan that this world can't be saved much like his world couldn't be saved. I have a feeling they are setting up the plan to either be thwarted or backfire.

  14. #1019
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I hope not as I hope that Johns DOES reference the Father's of the World's Finest in Doomsday Clock at least a small reference would be nice.
    Right ?
    I would like for him to reference it but we're towards the final part of DC. We'll see.

  15. #1020
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I definitely think the threads woven by Manhattan go far beyond Clock. Hell, I feel like we've gotten minor references to Manhattan screwing with time in every title I read (even Morrison mentioned it in GL). But I expect Clock to largely be self-contained and stand alone, even with these connections to a larger DCU-wide narrative. I figure we might get a name drop for Jor-El and Flashpoint Batdad and whatever else (Tim Drake and Myx being imprisoned, whatever) but nothing more.

    What I think will happen is we'll get a couple answers about why Manhattan has done what he's done, enough to wrap up the threads in Clock itself, but it will all spill over into a larger Crisis style line-wide Event where everything will actually be resolved and DC will "fix" its continuity by getting the missing decade back. That'll result in a reboot (soft for most characters, hard for a couple who were too damaged by the 52) and relaunch.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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