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  1. #1126

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    I don't think we've seen the full extent of Dr. Manhattan's meddling yet.

  2. #1127
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't think we've seen the full extent of Dr. Manhattan's meddling yet.
    I will laugh if they hike the cover price of the next issue and the excuse is it's all part of his meddling.

  3. #1128
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I will laugh if they hike the cover price of the next issue and the excuse is it's all part of his meddling.
    Manhattan has also been messing with the Doomsday Clock release schedule and he actually made HiC himself. True story.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

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  4. #1129
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Manhattan has also been messing with the Doomsday Clock release schedule and he actually made HiC himself. True story.


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  5. #1130
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    I'm still digesting this issue, but damn...just when I thought Johns had gone past his prime, here comes Doomsday Clock. Every issue has been riveting, but this one may be the best yet.

    One thing I was curious about though that I haven't seen anyone else mention...was Manhattan responsible for splitting Superman & Lois into two parts? We know that Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark return to Earth from Convergence just as the Justice League forms to defeat Darkseid. Clark decides to leave this world to its Superman, and operates in hiding. Flash forward a decade or so, and N52 Superman (and Lois) dies and Pre-Flashpoint Superman takes over. Through Mr. Mxy shenanigans, both halves of Lois & Clark merge together in Superman Reborn, and it re-writes some DCU history as we saw...but Dr. Manhattan talks about manipulating events to bring about a Superman he understands (N52), and we see him in the armored collared suit, but Manhattan makes no mention of "his" Superman dying, merging, or otherwise becoming the more-attached-to-mankind Superman we have now.

    I know Manhattan is immune to the world changing around him from various events, so the timeline re-write of Superman Reborn had no bearing on Manhattan or his memory of N52 Superman...but he doesn't seem to mention how the current guy isn't the same one (again, unless I missed something). I thought we'd see the split happen, but since we didn't I now wonder if they're just going to ignore it.
    That's just the Metaverse correcting itself.
    The Gypsies had no home. The Doors had no bass.

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  6. #1131
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Telos was responsible for them splitting, by pulling the pre-Flashpoint Gotham City (with Lois and Clark in it) it is time and then returning it without them, as they went to the First Crisis and from there to the New 52 reality.

    Mxyztplk's comments during Superman Reborn can be explained as Jon not wanting to see the two Supermen merge and undo what he did (part of the Metaverse fighting back against him). He can be said to be responsible for the situation as it existed then in that he was responsible for the “branch” of Superman who wasn't split out by Convergence becoming the post-Flashpoint Superman.

    Unless and until Doomsday Clock says otherwise, that's the answer that requires the least changes from the published material, and so that's the story I'm sticking with.
    Mxy wasn't talking about Superboy when he said "the conditions that created all this...is well beyond me" and "you think I want a fleet of lawyers descending on me? Or even worse...HIM? HE'LL be sure to notice this. And I would much rather take the kid and hit the road than deal with HIM." On first read, I thought he was referencing his jailer, Mr. Oz (whom we didn't know was Jor-El yet), but then at the end it shows Oz. And he says "I didn't think it was possible. That Superman, his wife, and son could repair what was broken. And I'm not the only one, HE didn't Superman could do it either...considering all that had been set in motion and the forces behind it, is it Superman who has the final say? Or HIM?" And the panel shows Mars, where we know naked blue guys like to hang. I dunno, maybe I'm way off, but it just seemed like they were saying Doc M. I guess I need to re-read Convergence.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  7. #1132
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    From now on any errors or continuity confusion we'll attribute to the Metaverse correcting itself.
    The Gypsies had no home. The Doors had no bass.

    Does our reality determine our fiction or does our fiction determine our reality?

    Whenever the question comes up about who some mysterious person is or who is behind something the answer will always be Frank Stallone.

    "This isn't a locking the barn doors after the horses ran way situation this is a burn the barn down after the horses ran away situation."

  8. #1133
    God Body DIVINITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon1load View Post
    I LOVED this issue. This is how an event should be written. Except for the delays.
    +1

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  9. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was Johnny. And in other, more obscure continuity nods, Verner Brothers- the company who made the Nathanial Dusk movies- is originally from the Blue Devil comics from the 80s.
    And there was me thinking it's a nod to Warner Bros, DC's parent company.

  10. #1135
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    So Superman fades from existence at the moment Johnny Thunder sends the Thunderbolt for him. Then Manhattan prevents Alan Scott from becoming Green Lantern because he's experimenting or something? That then causes all the other heroes to not exist until Superman reappears in the timeline?

    There was a really cool story years ago in which the Phantom Stranger took Batman to the next Earth in which his parents were killed (every 20 years the same events take place on a different dimension) in order to save them. Robin deduces that Krypton doesn't exist in this dimension and fears that if Batman saves this version of the Wayne's there would be no Batman and no other heroes would follow without inspiration from Batman or Superman. They ended up saving the Waynes. That Earth's Bruce is then inspired by the Batman that saved them. I would have loved to see this version expanded on.

  11. #1136
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    From now on any errors or continuity confusion we'll attribute to the Metaverse correcting itself.
    And that might very well be what Johns was getting at when Manhattan said the Metaverse has defenses to fix itself. It may have been shorthand to wave away some of our questions, and makes it easier for writers to reinstall classic elements. No need to dive into an explanation, because Manhattan said the Metaverse will correct itself. It's easy, a bit lazy, but also pretty brilliant. No need to wait for another Crisis, if you want to bring something back just do it & let your readers assume the universe was just making it right.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  12. #1137
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post


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    Oh no, Manhattan is effecting our world too!!
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  13. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonaX View Post
    And there was me thinking it's a nod to Warner Bros, DC's parent company.
    I mean, it obviously is. DC's been owned by Warner Brothers since the 70s. It was a nod to them back then.

  14. #1139
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    Anyone else notice the Metaverse Doctor Fate's origin and wonder if this was a retcon or just Manhattan simplifying it?

  15. #1140
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    About the New 52/pre-Flashpoint split:

    It was heavily implied in Superman Reborn that Dr. M split the two as part of his campaign to fight Hope in the Metaverse (which apparently is personified by Alan Scott, Wally West, and Clark Kent). Telos' Convergence re-introduced a version of Superman into the Metaverse that allowed the consciousness of the Metaverse to begin the steps for a mini-Crisis, merging pre-Flashpoint Supes with the New 52 one. The Metaverse fighting back.

    I don't know how much of Dr. M's meddling is now directly done by him, or are just reverberations from his meddling here and there. His presence is the DCU was said in DC #10 to have paved the way for this new multiverse, which now includes the Dark Multiverse. It makes sense the Watchmen universe's stain on DC would create something as twisted as The Batman Who Laughs.

    Doomsday Clock makes all of the current events meaningless, haha. We know for a fact that whatever happens to Lex during Year of the Villain will be undone and he will go back to his normal, human self by the timed Doomsday Clock starts...

    Unless that is a big reason why Didio has caused DC 11 and 12 to be late: he is having John's rewrite stuff to fall in line with what is happening now. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Didio retcons Doomsday Clock to happen as an Elseworlds, smh. I mean, the announcement of 3 Jokers made it seem that if it doesn't get an amazing reception that it won't be canon, making DC Rebirth #1 have a crazy reveal that will never be resolved (three Jokers).

    Moral of the story: I'm very upset Johns is not guiding the DCU anymore.

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