Readers of Doomsday Clock all SPOILERS thread

[superduperman]

I thought Walmart books are some kind of miniseries(Like Batman Universe). Have they own stories but still apply in DC main continuity.

I think they are meant to be vague enough that if you want to interpret them that way, you can. But at the time, the Kents were still dead and I doubt King or anyone else working on it knew what Johns was planning.

[Frostbite883]

I've been following Doomsday Clock for over two years, since #1 was released in November 2017, and I must say, it is well worth the wait.

No lie there.

[Frostbite883]

so again, the grand statement of this book is "Superman is swell", aii that's a dope ass Superman book. you're not the only person who has been following this story from the beginning. you say it's worth the wait, I am telling you it's not [obligatory: to me at least] So Doctor Manhattan is inspired by Superman; great, I don't care. why don't I care? because they spent 11 issues doing everything except backing up that thesis, that's not a compelling story that's just an intertextual statement.

>>>I am telling you it's not [obligatory: to me at least

And yet, you came off as if your opinion was the 'right' one. 6_6 Get real.

[manwhohaseverything]

so again, the grand statement of this book is "Superman is swell", aii that's a dope ass Superman book. you're not the only person who has been following this story from the beginning. you say it's worth the wait, I am telling you it's not [obligatory: to me at least] So Doctor Manhattan is inspired by Superman; great, I don't care. why don't I care? because they spent 11 issues doing everything except backing up that thesis, that's not a compelling story that's just an intertextual statement.

It depends on what you mean by inspire . Superman's great feats or noble ideals aren't the reason, Dr. Manhattan helped out. Superman is a fool struggling with something and was in over his head. When you see someone struggle with something or fools trying hard to do something that's easy for you. It's instinctual, to help them. If i see someone messing up a sum or something . I would help. It's human instinct, which Dr. Manhattan still had. If it's a stranger. It doubles its impact. It's altruism. If superman and Dr. Manhattan had known each other. There wouldn't much of an ending.Vice versa,superman was asking for a hand this time, not taking sides.

[mike627]

This was a strong ending.Nice to see the JSA back and now we got Earth-1985 among other things.

[Restingvoice]

I thought Walmart books are some kind of miniseries(Like Batman Universe). Have they own stories but still apply in DC main continuity.

Until the current canon, the mainline books acknowledge the events in the anthologies, by way of character mentioning the event happened or showing the effect it has on the character or world, I can't say for certain that it's considered canon or not.

[Frostbite883]

I respect the HBO show for feeling like a successor for how it told its story and it’s critique on superheroes, even if I disagree with it tying it with the troubling political climate of today (though that was handled great and TBF the original was political, too, but I didn’t feel it was anvilicious like the show was).

'Anvilicious'? How? Specifically how?

[Mr.B]

Wonder if the Doomsday Clock Earth 2 overrides the Nu 52 Earth 2 ?

Or do we have both now?

[Anthony Shaw]

What's gonna happen with Firestorm, and Martin Stein?

Do we have two Michael Holts?

What about Metamorpho?

[Dataweaver]

Okay: here's the model that I think is most true to Johns' intent:

The Metaverse consists of multiple layers, each corresponding to a different era of publication. When Barry Allen became the Flash, the first new layer was created, populated by a single Earth: DCC's Earth 2. The primary later of the Metaverse then was revealed to contain an entire Multiverse of infinite Earths, including the likes of Earths 1, 2, 3, S, X, and Prime. Note that the Earth 2 of this layer is not the same as the Earth 2 of the prior layer.

When the Crisis on Infinite Earths happened, a second new layer was created, populated by copies of the Infinite Earths. The Earth 1 of that new layer is what DDC#12 calls Earth 1985. Meanwhile, the main layer merged five Earths from the previous era together (Earths 1, 2, 4, S, and X) to form a new Earth. This Earth was initially unstable, but was eventually stabilized by the Zero Hour event. And although the Infinite Earths were gone, a Multiverse of sorts was gradually revealed in the form of the Elseworlds.

With Infinite Crisis, another new layer was added to the Metaverse. This later and its primary Earth isn't mentioned in DDC#12; but arguably, the continuity changes wrought by Infinite Crisis, and the birth of the Orrery of Worlds, was enough to merit a new layer. I think Earth Sigma (or “Earth Σ”, after the mathematical symbol for summation) would be a good name for it. And as mentioned, the main layer of the Metaverse saw the creation of the 52-Earth Orrery, headed up by New Earth. Final Crisis tweaked the main layer of this Earth slightly, making it a bit like how Zero Hour was to the layer of Earth Σ.

Flashpoint, and Dr. Manhattan's meddling, triggered another new layer to the Metaverse centered around New Earth and its Orrery of Worlds, while the primary layer of the Metaverse transformed into the New 52. Just like Zero Hour adjusted the Earth Σ layer and Final Crisis adjusted the New Earth layer, Convergence adjusted this layer, leading to Rebirth and now Doomsday Clock.

And Doomsday Clock has just created the latest of the “archival” layers of the Metaverse, focused on Earth 52 and its Orrery of Worlds. The top layer of the Metaverse has once again been revised, bringing in the new DC timeline and probably affecting the Multiverse as well (although the specifics of the Multiversal transformation haven't been revealed yet, and probably have something to do with how the current Justice League story will play out). We're at the very beginning of a new era, which will likely continue on through 5G; and when 5G ends, a new Metaversal later featuring Earth 5G will be born to preserve it.

So there aren't two Earth 2s in the Metaverse; there are at least four, with a fifth on the way: the Golden Age layer's Earth 2, the Silver Age layer's Earth 2, the post-IC Earth 2, and the New 52 Earth 2. (Technically, Earth Σ's layer also had an “Earth 2”; but that Earth was set in the Antimatter Universe and was actually more like the Earth 3 of the previous and subsequent layers.)

[FBarnhill]

'Anvilicious'? How? Specifically how?

It’s a preference for me but I feel it was too much on the nose on what it was trying to say. In general, no matter what message, I feel any message should be treated with enough subtlety to respect that the audience knows what you’re saying. Unless its core audience really doesn’t know anything about these issues, which is troubling in itself. I still think it’s a message worth telling and they do some clever things with it, like with Hooded Justice.

[Ra-El]

Before DDC was launched, in some interview, more than one, Geoff Johns was asked of Superman was important to the story, his answer was that "Superman was the story".
You may have not like that DDC was all about one carácter, but Johns told us that before se started reading.
And considering that Superman is mentioned a few times during Watchmen, it is undertandable why he is the one used.

[Ascended]

DC is acknowledging that in overwriting their continuity, the prior iterations still exist, even if we don't visit them. Basically, "Don't worry - that fictional setting we dumped still exists!" Do we really need to be told that?

I just don't understand how that's satisfying. The stories are real, the continuity is fiction. And the fictional explanation that discarded fiction still exists (fictionally) strikes me as entirely absurd. Monty Python level absurd. Just minus the humor.

I agree; telling us the stories are still real is pretty stupid when we have those stories in our long boxes and on our trade shelves and remember them happening.

But this opens up the potential of getting new stories in those old settings, and that's potentially worth a lot. But it'll depend on how well DC plays this.

If all we get is lip service and a "yeah pre-Crisis (or whichever long-gone era) happened but no one in-story remembers it and we're not publishing new stories in that setting" then it's all been f*cking pointless and all DC has done is remind us how awful they are. And that applies if we only get an occasional miniseries or one-shot, because we get out-of-continuity books already (which are almost always better than main continuity). But if we get a new ongoing (or four) set in pre-Crisis (or a setting that's 95% pre-Crisis), and the same holds true for other eras of DC, then that *might* be a big win for everyone. I mean, if you're not enjoying the current Superman/Aquaman/League/whatever book, this might give you a book set in an era you enjoyed more. Depending on how DC handles distribution it might even help them break away from the direct market, which is something the whole industry needs to do.

And if continuity doesn't matter anymore, then publishers can't rely on the "importance" of a story and will have to ensure actual quality.

Honestly I have my concerns about all of this, from the creative end of things down to the business side. And I've got zero interest in 5G. But......this *could* be a positive thing, if DC can spin it right.

[warzon]

I can honestly say I haven read the whole series.but in Doomsday Clock #9 page 22 we see the Original LSH.but in issue 12 we see this new LSH so are we still in the Rebirth Universe instead of pre Flashpoint Universe.i'm so confused with DC right now.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I can honestly say I haven read the whole series.but in Doomsday Clock #9 page 22 we see the Original LSH.but in issue 12 we see this new LSH so are we still in the Rebirth Universe instead of pre Flashpoint Universe.i'm so confused with DC right now.

I am sure there is some art with the original LSH in it hidden somewhere but it had to be redrawn once TPTB gave the Legion to Bendis. I have a feeling much of the delays to DC were due to rewrites caused by editorial mandates and palace intrigue