Readers of Doomsday Clock all SPOILERS thread

[Slim Shady]

If Johns can stick the landing, this is almost certainly going to go down as his masterpiece. A Watchmen sequel by Geoff Johns has no right to be as good as Clock is. None. I'm still not sure if this story should exist at all or if it's an abomination (Watchmen in the DCU? Sounds like bad fanfic!) but if this story is a monster, it's a beautiful one.

For sure, anytime something hits legend status, you should always be very cautious at later works like prequels and sequels and whatnot. Watchmen is at the top of that list as far a comics go. I've been highly impressed at the way Johns has done it. Nothing feels cheap or like blasphemy. He's done all the characters justice. I don't see where he's tarnished anything from the original. Just a really good job by him. I'd say it has the potential to be an instant classic.

I think some are going to have problems with the ending, I just don't think all these universal rebirth continuity questions will get answered and wrapped up nicely. I'm just taking it as a standalone, kinda sequel that touches all of DC.

[Slim Shady]

The Joker should always be able to make you laugh, especially in a black humor, "I shouldn't be laughing at this because it's so horrible" kind of way. He's a villain you love to hate, and his enthusiasm is infectious and make him entertaining along the way. Him telling Manhattan to put clothes on, being delighted at Harley possibly sending people to kill him on his birthday, employing a dude named Shaky specifically to put tattoos on people with a dirty needle (I cringed and laughed when Shaky popped his head out), etc. is all great. He should be used more sparingly, and be exactly like this when he shows up.

You got it. And he should never be serious, even when he's being serious. Another part I laughed at was when Mime shoots his "gun", and Joker just busts out laughing "I didn't see that coming!" With all the chaos that was going on at that exact time, he was for real getting a kick out of it. That's perfect.

[Ascended]

For sure, anytime something hits legend status, you should always be very cautious at later works like prequels and sequels and whatnot. Watchmen is at the top of that list as far a comics go. I've been highly impressed at the way Johns has done it. Nothing feels cheap or like blasphemy. He's done all the characters justice. I don't see where he's tarnished anything from the original. Just a really good job by him. I'd say it has the potential to be an instant classic.

I think some are going to have problems with the ending, I just don't think all these universal rebirth continuity questions will get answered and wrapped up nicely. I'm just taking it as a standalone, kinda sequel that touches all of DC.

Yeah, there's no way this resolves all the Rebirth continuity mysteries on its own. I think it'll set up the next Crisis-style event that *will* finish those plots, but I suspect DC really wants Clock to stand on its own as much as it possibly can.

Im not expecting any real resolutions here, but if we dont get them a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

[Inversed]

It was an enjoyable Joker wasn't it? Over the top without trying to be. That's when he's good. When you can laugh at him and also know he's a bad man at the same time. And how perfect of a match are him with Marionette and Mime?

Yeah, despite just how much Snyder has been using the Joker, Johns' portrayal in this and King's portrayal in his run have just been so much better, they've legitimately made me laugh hard at him so many times.

[Frontier]

Yeah, despite just how much Snyder has been using the Joker, Johns' portrayal in this and King's portrayal in his run have just been so much better, they've legitimately made me laugh hard at him so many times.

The best part about Doomsday Clock Joker? He has normal speech bubbles .

[SiegePerilous02]

I could "hear" Hamill in Joker's dialogue when Johns wrote him, whereas I don't really when Snyder writes him. So that automatically makes Johns a better Joker writer for me.

[Scott Taylor]

Yah we haven't seen Joker be this well done since maybe Paul Dini wrote Slayride.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Not a fan of the retcon to Firestorm's origin AT ALL!

In general, I hate the "everything you know is wrong" trope, and I also hate the retconning of the past to make it more cynical. This has both, and I hope it doesn't stick once the story is over.

This is Maxwell Lord all over again.

[Slim Shady]

Yeah, despite just how much Snyder has been using the Joker, Johns' portrayal in this and King's portrayal in his run have just been so much better, they've legitimately made me laugh hard at him so many times.

I haven't read any of Snyder's JL stuff, but the Joker in his Batman run is the perfect example of trying too hard. With Joker, the understated craziness works much better than the extreme psycho in your face craziness. And Snyder's Joker wasn't all that funny to me.

I'll give Johns credit with all the other characters too. That's a lot of big personalities to juggle. Classic characters that you can't screw up when you use them. I've been impressed with how he writes Manhattan. He just seems like a character that would be easy to mess up, like make him come across as too know it all or make him boring. Superman and Wonder Woman kinda sound a tad generic, but not bad. Overall though I think he's done a really good job.

[philosopop]

With Doomsday Clock, I feel like I'm reading a comic book for adults.
not an "adult" comic
not comiX
not ultraviolent nightmares

but something on the level of persepolis, watchmen, pride of baghdad ...

[ducklord]

Not a fan of the retcon to Firestorm's origin AT ALL!

In general, I hate the "everything you know is wrong" trope, and I also hate the retconning of the past to make it more cynical. This has both, and I hope it doesn't stick once the story is over.

This is Maxwell Lord all over again.

I think the open question is, whether this change to Firestorm's origin (along with Man-Bat's, Metamorpho's, et al) are intended to be the "real" origins, or are, in fact, "corrupted" origins that have been brought about by Doc Manhattan's meddling.

If it's the latter, it might be reversed. Maybe. Given Johns' oeuvre, however, it's much more likely that these revised origins will "stick," even after a lot of Manhattan's changes are undone. Just like Barry's dead mom (and yes, I'm still bitter about that).

[MajorHoy]

. . . Given Johns' oeuvre, however, it's much more likely that these revised origins will "stick," even after a lot of Manhattan's changes are undone. Just like Barry's dead mom (and yes, I'm still bitter about that).

I wonder if they could use Doomsday Cluck to undo the death of Barry's mother?

[phantom1592]

I wonder if they could use Doomsday Cluck to undo the death of Barry's mother?

They could... Frankly they SHOULD since Flashpoint was the beginning of Manhattan's interference... It's only logical that they fix what he broke. (though fixing what Reverse Flash broke was the original problem...)

But honestly, I don't see much point to it anymore. Dead Mom... or Live Mom she was never a regular cast member. If they would simply stop mentioning and let the angst go and fade back into the distance I'd be content. I know she never had any part of his origin... and he became a cop and a superhero because it was a way to help people of his own free will... but I honestly don't think I ever read an actual story with his alive parents in it. They just weren't that important to who the Flash was.

Iris' death had more of an effect on Barry and now they'll just use Wally to bitter him up... but frankly i'm just tired of the whole dead parent controversy. Just... Let it die.

I know they killed off the kents with the reboot... does that fact ever get mentioned in Superman? Is he ever bitter and depressed that his folks aren't around or weren't avenged or whatever? Or are there enough modern stories to keep him busy?

[CaptCleghorn]

They could... Frankly they SHOULD since Flashpoint was the beginning of Manhattan's interference... It's only logical that they fix what he broke. (though fixing what Reverse Flash broke was the original problem...)

But honestly, I don't see much point to it anymore. Dead Mom... or Live Mom she was never a regular cast member. If they would simply stop mentioning and let the angst go and fade back into the distance I'd be content. I know she never had any part of his origin... and he became a cop and a superhero because it was a way to help people of his own free will... but I honestly don't think I ever read an actual story with his alive parents in it. They just weren't that important to who the Flash was.

Iris' death had more of an effect on Barry and now they'll just use Wally to bitter him up... but frankly i'm just tired of the whole dead parent controversy. Just... Let it die.

I know they killed off the kents with the reboot... does that fact ever get mentioned in Superman? Is he ever bitter and depressed that his folks aren't around or weren't avenged or whatever? Or are there enough modern stories to keep him busy?

DClock seems like an overall thing. When the conclusion happens and years are put back or whatever the explanation turns out to be, I doubt much except Legion and JSA will be explicitly mentioned. Details like Barry's mother or Clark's parents would probably be handled in their own books. That's the way I'd handle it. Instead of one series where it's all happening, those details relating to a particular character should (IMO) be handled by that character's team.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Dead Mom... or Live Mom she was never a regular cast member. If they would simply stop mentioning and let the angst go and fade back into the distance I'd be content. I know she never had any part of his origin... and he became a cop and a superhero because it was a way to help people of his own free will... but I honestly don't think I ever read an actual story with his alive parents in it.

They became more involved in his cast / story towards the end of his pre-CoIE stories (in the 1980s).

. . . I know they killed off the kents with the reboot... does that fact ever get mentioned in Superman? Is he ever bitter and depressed that his folks aren't around or weren't avenged or whatever? Or are there enough modern stories to keep him busy?

And don't forget, it was the post-CoIE reboot to Superman that brought the Ma and Pa Kent into Clark's adult life. Before that, they had been dead in stories from 1938-1986 (nearly fifty years).