Readers of Doomsday Clock all SPOILERS thread

[Buried Alien]

I do wonder if the resolution involves Dr. Manhattan reclaiming his humanity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robotman]

I do wonder if the resolution involves Dr. Manhattan reclaiming his humanity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

But he still wants to walk around naked, so they throw him in Arkham.

[Buried Alien]

But he still wants to walk around naked, so they throw him in Arkham.

Tough municipal laws. The mental asylum for a public indecency charge. How many drunken college students do you think they get?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[MrBlondey]

I missed some stuff on 1st read. Mime & Marionette indeed getting away, and Superman's entrance looks like he was on the receiving end of a Black Adam haymaker. Veidt's plan already failed, and both he & Black Adam are set up to fall in this story. Don't get the reason for taking WW off the field. It's still a great ride. Honestly, Watchmen characters are going to be much less effective in this Earth they are on. Jon is a puppet who can see the strings, only mentioned in The Watchmen, but beautifully shown in DC. But still a puppet, and to the puppeteer...he is less important than Superman. He's toast? Yeah, I think so. Not destroyed by Superman, but some other way. Looks like Luthor right now, but who knows? Any last minute predictions?

[H-E-D]

Jon is a puppet who can see the strings, only mentioned in The Watchmen, but beautifully shown in DC.

Really? I feel like Doomsday Clock has totally dropped the ball on that aspect of Manhattan. He's been turned into a generic omniscient reality warper. All the stuff with him changing the history of the DC Universe out of curiosity doesn't line up with "puppet who can see the strings". Certainly revealing that Manhattan chose to spare Mime and Marionette doesn't. In Watchmen, Jon is premised on hard determinism; I don't see that in DC.

[MrBlondey]

H-E-D: He's seeing DC comics being changed by the company itself. 1938 continuity gone, and he sees it happen. He didn't do it. He'd never seen that in his Universe because "The Watchmen" never had that tampering done. Doc himself has changed little, maybe not even as much as it looks like. "Doomsday Clock" has beaten "we see what we want to see" into our minds, be careful what you take for granted! For my part, Doc basically mulling over how useless he's been ( the "being of inaction" speech) alone shows depth beyond "typical reality warper".

[H-E-D]

H-E-D: He's seeing DC comics being changed by the company itself. 1938 continuity gone, and he sees it happen. He didn't do it. He'd never seen that in his Universe because "The Watchmen" never had that tampering done. Doc himself has changed little, maybe not even as much as it looks like. "Doomsday Clock" has beaten "we see what we want to see" into our minds, be careful what you take for granted! For my part, Doc basically mulling over how useless he's been ( the "being of inaction" speech) alone shows depth beyond "typical reality warper".

Unless, I really misread what seemed like a simple thing, it was Manhattan that moved the Lantern out of Alan Scott's grasp.

1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg

[MrBlondey]

Yep. But reality was already changed repeatedly. He didn't do most of it, just became aware of it. As for what he actually accomplished, I believe Alan Scott is alive...but we'll see in issue 12.

[H-E-D]

Yep. But reality was already changed repeatedly. He didn't do most of it, just became aware of it. As for what he actually accomplished, I believe Alan Scott is alive...but we'll see in issue 12.

Not doing most of it is irrelevant to my point.

[MrBlondey]

Alright, I would rather discuss the comic, but..
Generic-subjective, but I at least see more depth than
" villain of the week"
Omniscient-he's not able to see everything, and he was
blindsided by history changing. Not being
omniscient is such a big part of this, I'm
surprised anyone could miss it.
Reality-he's seeing evidence that it's a comic book.
Warper-This universe fights back, listen to Johnny,
Cei-U protected the JSA. They're still part
of reality.
The strings of "reality" being pulled by DC ( the company) are seen by Doc. He doesn't know why he was drawn to this world, etc. He meets Superman right on schedule, his responses are not alterable by him.

[JonaX]

Veidt's an interesting case. He's taken some reprehensible steps, but his goals have been non-villainous. Road to Hell paved with good intentions. Even with his actions on the DC Earth, it's to get Jon to come back and save the Watchmen Earth. My guess is that Johns is going to something different than Moore. Veidt won't getting off free even if strongly tainted. Neither Veidt nor Manhattan have seems to have grown as a result of their actions in Watchmen. Can we realistically expect a lesson to be learned from Doomsday Clock?

I'm assuming Johns is setting up Veidt not succeeding, they've pretty much hinted it with Johnny Thunder in the cell with the Lantern. Reggie is another factor who I think will be the part of the finale and I think he'll get a conclusion with him helping to foil the plan but also to make peace and ridding himself of the Rorschach persona, the only one I'm bit unsure on is The Comedian, he's the only real enigma in terms of why he was saved other than to kill Bubatis and will return to being dead after this or will he be given the chance to live again but no longer as a vigilante.

[H-E-D]

Alright, I would rather discuss the comic, but..
Generic-subjective, but I at least see more depth than
" villain of the week"
Omniscient-he's not able to see everything, and he was
blindsided by history changing. Not being
omniscient is such a big part of this, I'm
surprised anyone could miss it.
Reality-he's seeing evidence that it's a comic book.
Warper-This universe fights back, listen to Johnny,
Cei-U protected the JSA. They're still part
of reality.
The strings of "reality" being pulled by DC ( the company) are seen by Doc. He doesn't know why he was drawn to this world, etc. He meets Superman right on schedule, his responses are not alterable by him.

You're missing the forest for the trees here. To make it as simple as I can:

In Watchmen, Jon cannot make choices. In Doomsday Clock, Jon can make choices.

I'm not saying you have to have a problem with that. I think it was a conscious decision by Johns and not a mistake.

[MrBlondey]

Nah. In the first book he made choices, like coming back from the dead, ending the Vietnam War, but to him it was all happening at the same time. You're reading too much into it. Now his perspective is different because the timeline keeps changing.

Meanwhile on Mars, I'm looking at your point. Then there is no point. There never was. Reply or not, I'm out of this conversation.

[Restingvoice]

I'm not at all interested or invested in this story because the impression I got was the whole Dr. Manhattan thing is DC attempting to fix New 52 by blaming somebody else's creation that's not at all related to New 52 which is a tiny bit disgusting to me and they're doing it in real-time, inside the story, instead of in their meeting room.

So I only care about the result: What kind of DCU that I will get after all of this is over?

However, the resolution of Dr. Manhattan plot has been delayed that it's got annoying and I can't help but want to know now

What the heck is going on in this story?

I've skimmed but there's no sign of any fixing happening, and instead, it's Oz going on about his plan, which I still don't care, by the way, Alan Scott's apparently alive when last I heard he's dead, and now Saturn Girl's getting kicked out of continuity.

Also, if, let's say, this story isn't about fixing continuity like I thought it was since other writers have been bringing back old continuities in their works, what is this story actually about and what is the purpose?

[Ascended]

I'm not at all interested or invested in this story because the impression I got was the whole Dr. Manhattan thing is DC attempting to fix New52

I think that was the original intention, at least, but the delays and power struggles at the top may have changed that (the JSA and Legion are no longer off-limits until Clock is done, for example). And I have to admit I think it's a relatively clever way of handling their past mistakes. All the continuity glitches since the reboot....it's not that DC is passing the buck (because Manhattan isn't real, it's not like they can blame him for their screw ups) but within the narrative they're explaining and rationalizing it, turning a mistake into part of the narrative. I like that they're tackling the problem directly. And thematically Clock is all about the grim-n-gritty versus hope and optimism, and using Manhattan and the Watchmen is fitting, if terribly, bluntly, on the nose.

So I only care about the result: What kind of DCU that I will get after all of this is over?

You'll get the exact same DCU you have now. The details of the history may be different, some characters might be back or brought in, some of the continuity mistakes might be resolved, but it's the same people in charge and the same talent making the books. Quality-wise, you're not going to find a very different, better DCU when this is over, regardless of what Clock does or doesn't do with history. When Clock ends, the same people will be making the same kind of stories and the same kind of mistakes.

Also, if, let's say, this story isn't about fixing continuity like I thought it was since other writers have been bringing back old continuities in their works, what is this story actually about and what is the purpose?

I think it can largely be taken as a commentary on DC management's differing approaches to their IP's and the fight over who gets the DCU they want. On one side you have the dark, moody, gritty approach that Didio and Lee seem to prefer, embodied by the Watchmen characters, and they're invading and screwing with the DCU which is (supposed to be) a bright, hopeful world that promises a better tomorrow (which is how Johns usually approaches the DCU when he's not Infinite Crisis-ing everything to hell). In a lot of ways, Clock is sort of "Didio v Johns: Dawn of Mismanagement." And what we have is an outside force (company administration) going in and purposefully screwing with the DCU to turn it into a darker, rougher place, with the heroes attempting to save their world and way of life (I assume Johns is inserting himself on this side, if he's considered self-insertion proxies in the story at all).

And all that is wrapped up around the concept of doing a Watchmen sequel that can be sold long-term in trade format. That's the main goal here, as far as the business side goes, I think.

And.....possibly.....this is the story of how at least some of the Watchmen characters find themselves as part of the main DCU, or at least the DC multiverse, allowing DC the opportunity to capitalize further on Watchmen's popularity by giving them a way to use those characters in the main line going forward. I wont be at all surprised if Manhattan, Ozymandias, Comedian, and Rorschach actually end up on the main earth after this.