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  1. #1426
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    This has still been one of DC's better books. And I personally am hoping not everything is explained, just because I dislike obsessions to explain all the watermelons. Imagination is often better, anyway.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I agree it would still have blown it out of the water, but I can't imagine any worse timing for the comic book than this:

    1. 11 issues of the comic book, over two years
    2. All 9 episodes of a vastly superior TV series, over 9 weeks
    3. The finale of the comic book only three days after the season finale of the show
    While I am rather curious as to what took Johns so long (considering he was rather dramatically relieved of all competing matters bar the Stargirl show), I would imagine that as far as DC is concerned the comic has already completed its goal of making Watchmen just another IP to pick at (like Just Imagine or Tangent) acceptable to the readers, a feat in which it has exceeded before watchmen.

    In which case, it doesn’t matter to DC if the show is miles better. Because in ten years or twenty they’ll digest show as well and pick at it for parts too.

  3. #1428
    Concerned Citizen Citizen Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Prefer Doomsday Clock.
    Agreed. The HBOmen squanders everything Alan Moore left behind. At least Geoff Johns is actually attempting to respect Moore's work.

  4. #1429
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Is anyone going to be able to read this without comparing it to HBO's season finale? I can certainly accept DClock as being standalone and no longer an integral part of DC's continuity cleaning, but the presence of a high quality alternative Watchmen story seems to hurt any press this book gets.
    They all feel like their own things. Doomsday Clock and the HBO show kind of feel like Watchmen fanfiction both telling very different stories in very different ways, and I can still read the original Watchmen story as its own standalone property unaffiliated with either of the new works too. Since I don't think the HBO show of Johns story really enhance or hurt the original Watchmen story for me. Also I feel like the amount of people that watch the HBO show and will go from that to reading Doomsday Clock are pretty small. I wonder how people 5 years from now will remember this Doomsday Clock story and if it will kind of fall to the wayside like the Before Watchmen stories did.

    Although because of the nature of comics from the Big 2 I do worry about how the Doomsday Clock story will really turn out. I don't think Johns will be able to tie everything up and give all the hanging story threads a satisfying ending. Maybe in the future more will come from all this, but the upcoming solicits don't seem to really deal with anything from it. It does feel like plans of his were changed, but I don't think he will ever admit that.

  5. #1430
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    I would imagine that as far as DC is concerned the comic has already completed its goal of making Watchmen just another IP to pick at
    This is probably the ultimate goal and a great point. Same with the HBO show. They both have now turned Watchmen into a property to be mined beyond just reprinting or retelling the original story. The HBO show will likely get more seasons and tell new stories that are loosely inspired by the original work, and Doomsday Clock set the table for the Watchmen characters to be used on a broader scale. In the future we will probably get stories like the Comedian facing off against the Joker, Ozymandias and Lex clashing more, and Dr Manhattan or even the first Rorschach coming back to be involved in another story. The gate feels open now to pull from or create new content for the Watchmen IP to be used continuously.

  6. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    This is probably the ultimate goal and a great point. Same with the HBO show. They both have now turned Watchmen into a property to be mined beyond just reprinting or retelling the original story. The HBO show will likely get more seasons and tell new stories that are loosely inspired by the original work, and Doomsday Clock set the table for the Watchmen characters to be used on a broader scale. In the future we will probably get stories like the Comedian facing off against the Joker, Ozymandias and Lex clashing more, and Dr Manhattan or even the first Rorschach coming back to be involved in another story. The gate feels open now to pull from or create new content for the Watchmen IP to be used continuously.
    I have a suspicion that Johns is probably under orders at this point to make some knee-bending towards the show; but I’d wager that if DC has one long lasting legacy it’s might be if Reggie ends up stuck on Earth-Prime, as Rorschach has long been a low-hanging fruit and allows them to sidestep Walter’s... issues. To say nothing of the fact that odds are Rorscach’s legacy is a tad too bound to Seventh Kavalry

  7. #1432
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Did Johns ever explain why Doc vaporized the Crime Syndicate leftovers from his New 52 Justice League?

  8. #1433
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    They all feel like their own things. Doomsday Clock and the HBO show kind of feel like Watchmen fanfiction both telling very different stories in very different ways, and I can still read the original Watchmen story as its own standalone property unaffiliated with either of the new works too. Since I don't think the HBO show of Johns story really enhance or hurt the original Watchmen story for me. Also I feel like the amount of people that watch the HBO show and will go from that to reading Doomsday Clock are pretty small. I wonder how people 5 years from now will remember this Doomsday Clock story and if it will kind of fall to the wayside like the Before Watchmen stories did.

    Although because of the nature of comics from the Big 2 I do worry about how the Doomsday Clock story will really turn out. I don't think Johns will be able to tie everything up and give all the hanging story threads a satisfying ending. Maybe in the future more will come from all this, but the upcoming solicits don't seem to really deal with anything from it. It does feel like plans of his were changed, but I don't think he will ever admit that.
    All I'm saying is that the purveyors of both will be likely to compare them. I think both are excellent stories and well worth what I spent to watch/read them. I am more sure that the two separate stories in their individual media are not designed to fit together. Depending on how DClock 12 comes out on Wednesday, I suspect there will be those who will try.

    Johns' role and what he needs to say and keep quiet about in a professional capacity I have no idea of. I would bet my own money that we'll never know the complete true details and I am reticent to come to any conclusion. Even if the conclusion sucks, I can always assume a finish similar to Godzilla Meets Bambi and going with that, still be OK with the first 11 issues. It's been a third of a century and NOW is when we get two different sequels in two different media? Plus a COIE adaptation? Time really is screwed up.

    Maybe I'll have something more detailed and firmer to say after Wednesday's trip to my LCS.

  9. #1434
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Did Johns ever explain why Doc vaporized the Crime Syndicate leftovers from his New 52 Justice League?
    I assume it was from Owlman learning too much from the mobius chair.

  10. #1435
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I'm sure Johns & Franks have got to be a little nervous about how their finale is received, particularly after how well the HBO show nailed it. The two stories are are inevitably going to be compared, even if they were trying to do something very, very different.

    If Johns and Frank end up sticking the landing here, I think this series will be very fondly remembered. I've just finished my second re-read of the first 11 issues with another one of my students and I have been greatly impressed by what they've accomplished. It holds up quite well without the months-long delays.

  11. #1436
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    I’m going to wager that Johns simply wont have the pages to tie up the loose ends enough to stick the landing.

    Some of that will be deliberate (I would put money on Reggie ending up stranded), some will be the result of both DC and Watchmen having marched on in both story and office politics during the delays; and some will be because Johns’ imagination/vision has begun to exceed his limitations as a writer (that’s not a slam, all writers have them)

  12. #1437
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    We still don't really know what the series is supposed to accomplish, other than entertainment. Does anyone really think a new status quo will result from it? I don't.

    The main thing I have enjoyed about it was how they dealt with Adrian and the fallout from people discovering his big lie. And how he stubbornly still is trying to do the same thing yet again. Both Adrian and Manhattan just can't help themselves - they manipulate everything and everyone to achieve their ends. This stands in stark contrast to the heroes of this world, in particular Batman and Superman. And I love that juxtaposition of philosophies in this series.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #1438
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    Are the leaked spoilers true? Damn.

  14. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    We still don't really know what the series is supposed to accomplish, other than entertainment. Does anyone really think a new status quo will result from it? I don't.

    The main thing I have enjoyed about it was how they dealt with Adrian and the fallout from people discovering his big lie. And how he stubbornly still is trying to do the same thing yet again. Both Adrian and Manhattan just can't help themselves - they manipulate everything and everyone to achieve their ends. This stands in stark contrast to the heroes of this world, in particular Batman and Superman. And I love that juxtaposition of philosophies in this series.
    I would, as I’ve said, wager it’s main goal is/was to make it acceptable to readers/writers to tinker with Watchmen (which had previously been relatively sacrosanct due to both its reputation and the ethics of screwing over Moore)

    Theoretically, they can now cultivate the 3/4 different versions of watchmen (OG, Doomsday Clock, HBO and 2009 film; possibly Before Watchmen as well due to discrepancies with the OG) with an endless procession of possibilities until, like Wildstorm, it has its own Multiverse that DC shall one day destroy and integrate into the greater whole

  15. #1440
    Incredible Member blunt_eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    We still don't really know what the series is supposed to accomplish, other than entertainment. Does anyone really think a new status quo will result from it? I don't.
    Wasn't it supposed to continue the story of Rebirth? That is until Johns' role changed at DC and he no longer became the main lead for the future status quo.

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