Unworthy Thor: The Logic of Aaron's Run

[JKtheMac]

Interesting logic, though roundabouts it just seems to be leading to the idea of Thor acting like Thor again in a convoluted way and is not something I see many writers in the future paying attention too .

I think this is the nature of comics, and the sign of a good story. Things are explored and subtly shifted without removing what everyone identifies with. That isn't something we can say about every Thor run.

[JKtheMac]

A very good summary

My main contention with this entire run has been the reason for thors unworthiness of mjolnir

Gods themselves have never, ever been worthy just because the were gods, imo there is no relationship there at all

Thor seeing gor had a point concludes he isn't worthy of mjolnir - this is a confidence trick of himself - nothing more, since in mythos being a god does not dictate worthyness and never has

in this aspect the writers logic does not work at all for me

This seems to be a concern that many people focus on, but I believe it is irrelevant to the logic of Thor Odinson's worthiness. He judges himself unworthy and he judges Odin, the writer of the inscription and caster of the enchantment unworthy. How could he possibly weild Mjölnir while he believes those things to be true.

The enchantment of Mjölnir has always been contentious in canon, as the retcons rolled on the enchantment took on different meanings. Odinson is not barred from meeting the requirements of the enchantment because of his deeds, but because of how he currently understands the context of those deeds.

He will not reclaim the hammer until he understands that just because gods can be judged unworthy they need not be so forever.

further I'd like to see an explanation of why odin hasn't removed the worthyness enchantment if it's such a bane that he or thor can't weild mjolnir any longer - he's not feeling he's unworthy (maybe it's culs influence? ) - maybe he can't but I would question that since its had enchantments removed before (its time powers for example)

Odin wanted the hammer back. He may very well have removed the enchantment or at least put it in a safe place out of the way of potential claimants. However he wasn't able to reclaim it.

[JKtheMac]

Gaea is forgotten.

No she is not forgotten. The reason Aaron continues to express an ecological theme in his book is to highlight how Gaia/Jord/Erda/Mother Earth is being challenged and exploited.

Let's not pretend she is a major character in the previous 700 issues of Thor. She is only very occasionally mentioned and appears even less. Much like in Wagner she is a distant and mysterious anthropomorphic representation of Earth.

[JKtheMac]

" So to me, people are just caviler about ignoring the intentions of the original creators–ignoring the equity that was built up over the years. It’s, “I’m in charge now so I’ll do anything I damn well please,” and that’s almost always a mistake. When Walt did Thor, he didn’t reboot it or throw away the past. He just made it good."

- Jim Shooter https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...ives-and-more/

Summarizes my thoughts really well.

And in this interview Shooter clearly states he hasn't actually read Modern Marvel, only flicked through and looked at the art. So in reality he has no idea that Thor is as good as it is. He may not even realise it is one of Marvel's top selling books. He was also talking about Spencer's Cap not Thor. Which he clearly misunderstands.

Funny, when Simonson was given Thor, Shooter asked him to destroy Asgard and kill off every character except for Thor Odinson, and do a soft reboot of the franchise.

Besides that, it's also funny that Shooter picked Thor as an example to make that point, since if it had been up to Kirby, the story of Thor and Asgard would have come to an end with Ragnarok and would have led to the New Gods.

Ah but that is applying actual context and facts to the situation. Clearly fan rage requires a lack of such things.

[numberthirty]

Without trying to be too much of a jerk...

I see these equations of the "What Is What" of the situation being put together.

Thus far, I see a pretty obvious part that is missing from those equations.

[JKtheMac]

Without trying to be too much of a jerk...

I see these equations of the "What Is What" of the situation being put together.

Thus far, I see a pretty obvious part that is missing from those equations.

But you don't want to say what that is?

[GodThor]

No she is not forgotten. The reason Aaron continues to express an ecological theme in his book is to highlight how Gaia/Jord/Erda/Mother Earth is being challenged and exploited.

Let's not pretend she is a major character in the previous 700 issues of Thor. She is only very occasionally mentioned and appears even less. Much like in Wagner she is a distant and mysterious anthropomorphic representation of Earth.

never said she was major.

heck, last time I remember her was back during the All Mother stuff.

they should give her more panel time IMO.

[numberthirty]

But you don't want to say what that is?

Let's put it this way...

It seems like a "These Are The Pieces Of The Puzzle..." sidebar is in order. Think about every piece from the run in question. What are they?

[kilderkin]

never said she was major.

heck, last time I remember her was back during the All Mother stuff.

they should give her more panel time IMO.

Yes this was my point too

She's not major in the sense of how common her appearance is

But she is one of the things that make thor different to other Asgardians

and I would like it to be explored more

The environmental issues is a good point

I'd like it to be more explicit is all

[kilderkin]

This seems to be a concern that many people focus on, but I believe it is irrelevant to the logic of Thor Odinson's worthiness. He judges himself unworthy and he judges Odin, the writer of the inscription and caster of the enchantment unworthy. How could he possibly weild Mjölnir while he believes those things to be true.

The enchantment of Mjölnir has always been contentious in canon, as the retcons rolled on the enchantment took on different meanings. Odinson is not barred from meeting the requirements of the enchantment because of his deeds, but because of how he currently understands the context of those deeds.

He will not reclaim the hammer until he understands that just because gods can be judged unworthy they need not be so forever.



Odin wanted the hammer back. He may very well have removed the enchantment or at least put it in a safe place out of the way of potential claimants. However he wasn't able to reclaim it.

It might not be important to the writer, I'm not sure?

But it is important to me as a reader

And that, respectfully, is what concerns me

I've not invented these aspects, they might not be most important for the creative but they are the ones who placed them there

If they aren't important or are irrelevant then that betrays their stories nothing else

And I think the logic behind his unworthyness is intrinsically important to a story about his unworthyness

Now I appreciate opinions will vary, but the parts will of course affect people differently, for me the reason of his unworthyness is paramountly important, the length of the tease about the whisper woukd suggest so for the creative too imo

[The Cool Thatguy]

Funny how this was supposed to be a post specifically breaking down those tried misconceptions about Aaron's run just because they don't like what's happening to Odinson. But you're missing the point so hard it's almost comical.

No no, I get it, I just don't like it.

Jason doesn't 'get' Thor, so he's using the character and mythos as his ideological punching bag. In comics, that's not a new thing.

[Grind]

He will not reclaim the hammer until he understands that just because gods can be judged unworthy they need not be so forever.

That just sounds like a load of crap. Like it never crossed Thor's mind that the gods could be judged by anyone? Thor is the only god to whom worthiness matters anyway. (unless some giant revenge demon comes calling) All because he's fixated on Mjolnir. He has been all his life. Fixated on an object, power. The reason someone like Steve Rogers can lift the hammer is because he doesn't want it. bill didn't want the power, but needed it to save his people. The only reason he is unworthy is because he judges himself unworthy. Not based on his own actions, but on the actions of other gods. Thor willingly puts himself in jail for a crime someone else committed. Silly.

[JKtheMac]

Let's put it this way...

It seems like a "These Are The Pieces Of The Puzzle..." sidebar is in order. Think about every piece from the run in question. What are they?

I am not commenting on the whole run. I am not discussing all of the themes or even what the overall run is about. I am providing a place to discuss an issue that has derailed many threads.

[JKtheMac]

No no, I get it, I just don't like it.

Jason doesn't 'get' Thor, so he's using the character and mythos as his ideological punching bag. In comics, that's not a new thing.

But that is not an objective position. Like every long running character there are many aspects of their presentation and they have been interpreted in different ways. From my perspective he totally 'gets' Thor and all of the niggling problems I have with Thor and continuity. So all that demonstrates is Aaron sees Thor slightly differently to you.

The idea that he is seeking to undermine Thor continuity is strange. The way I see it he is strengthening the core ideas of what a god is and what worthiness means. This was needed in my perspective, having made a study of the continuity issues in Thor over the decades.

[JKtheMac]

That just sounds like a load of crap. Like it never crossed Thor's mind that the gods could be judged by anyone? Thor is the only god to whom worthiness matters anyway. (unless some giant revenge demon comes calling) All because he's fixated on Mjolnir. He has been all his life. Fixated on an object, power. The reason someone like Steve Rogers can lift the hammer is because he doesn't want it. bill didn't want the power, but needed it to save his people. The only reason he is unworthy is because he judges himself unworthy. Not based on his own actions, but on the actions of other gods. Thor willingly puts himself in jail for a crime someone else committed. Silly.

So the reason you don't like it is because you don't want to engage with the logic as presented. You are specifically reinterpreting the facts to make this claim. You don't need to like the way the story is told, or even care, but to ignore part of the story in order to say it is crap, is just venting not a dismissal of the comic on its own terms.

As I thought I had made clear, it has crossed Thor's mind but until now it was never objectively verified. This isn't just self doubt, this is self doubt with an undermining element of fact.