Is it time for Grant Morrison to replace Geoff Johns at DC?

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman is an incident. Green Lantern, BvS. Suicide Squad and Justice League are a pattern.

He had nothing to do with BvS and Squad, Green Lantern was way beyond his control and is well documented by now, and JL was likely out of his hands as well and it's major problems are rushing into production so soon after BvS's divisive critical reaction and relative under performance.. That thing was destined to be a mess no matter what. Of those movies you listed, Wonder Woman is the only one he had significant control with from start to finish, and it was VERY well received.

There's a pattern, but it's not what you think it is.

[TheCape]

Also Marc Guggenheim wrote the Green Lantern movie, not Johns.

[BatmanJones]

He had nothing to do with BvS and Squad, Green Lantern was way beyond his control and is well documented by now, and JL was likely out of his hands as well and it's major problems are rushing into production so soon after BvS's divisive critical reaction and relative under performance.. That thing was destined to be a mess no matter what. Of those movies you listed, Wonder Woman is the only one he had significant control with from start to finish, and it was VERY well received.

There's a pattern, but it's not what you think it is.

Totally true and Johns doesn't deserve the blame. But I'll repeat what I said in a "how's Johns doing as head of all things DC" thread:

Though DC is soaring above all competition on the comic book side, that side doesn't really matter at all. There's too little money in it.

The head of DC will be judged more than anything on the movies--fairly or not; in this case, not--because they matter more than any other aspect of Johns' role.

And I said then that though it was totally unfair, the fact that we're facing 7 Marvel movies in 2018 and one from DC (Aquaman at the end of the year), means that for a whole year only reception to Justice League will really matter and that reception has been quite poor. I loved it personally but my opinion doesn't matter.

As I said in that other thread, well before JL was released, well before we had any idea how it would do, that it would probably have a greater impact on his 'report card' as head of all things DC than any other thing. Terribly unfair but that's where the money is. And now we know it's been an extraordinary failure and that is NOT good for Johns.

My feeling is that the movies need MORE Johns, not LESS. But he may never have the chance to prove how he can influence these movies in a positive fashion because WB is panicking over JL.

I care so much more about the comics than the films and on the comics I give Johns an A+. Since Rebirth DC has steadily outsold Marvel and I think that's for the first time ever. He should get TONS of credit for that since Rebirth (all of it, even how to "rebirth" characters that aren't involved with the "Rebirth" story) but I think he'll be judged more on reception to JL.

For my money, there's no one in the world I'd rather see running DC than Johns and I wish Didio and Lee would step aside or take clearly subordinate positions on the comic side. And I really hope they'll allow Johns to be very involved in turning around how people feel about DCEU films. The problem is the schedule. We have nearly a whole year to go before the next movie and that's going to be a tough year for Johns to get through with his position intact.

It's wholly unfair but I really do think that's the bottom line.

I don't understand at all why anyone would suggest putting Morrison in charge. He's a writer. A GREAT writer but a writer. He's not an editor and he's never done any other part of the job. If they can get him back on exclusive and give him some leadership role as well, AWESOME. But he shouldn't displace Johns who has been doing an amazing job. DC Comics haven't been in such great shape (critically and commercially) since before Marvel really hit the scene in the 60s(!!!).

No doubt Johns SHOULD remain in charge. The failure of JL and the long wait to change opinions with Aquaman could mean he just can't. They need to sacrifice someone and it's not going to be Snyder. They sacrificed him pretty much as soon as BvS came out.

[TimberWolf]

Short answer: YES

[Stanlos]

What do you think?

I think that role should be held by someone with a greater respect for the catalogue of DC legends (not just their own pets or work). The best people for this are IMHO: Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, and the late Dwayne McDuffie. As the latter is sadly no longer with us I feel like the either of them should be the tops.

I think the movie side is now really important (some might say moreso than the comics) and for that I kind of feel like they should draw from the wildly successful animated verse (NOT the JLA War/JLA Throne of Atlantis stuff) for the talent to maybe work in tandem with Busiek/Waid.

[Ascended]

......

What about Greg Weisman?

[TheCape]

What about Greg Weisman?

Nah, he would make too much sense .

[SiegePerilous02]

Totally true and Johns doesn't deserve the blame. But I'll repeat what I said in a "how's Johns doing as head of all things DC" thread:

Though DC is soaring above all competition on the comic book side, that side doesn't really matter at all. There's too little money in it.

The head of DC will be judged more than anything on the movies--fairly or not; in this case, not--because they matter more than any other aspect of Johns' role.

And I said then that though it was totally unfair, the fact that we're facing 7 Marvel movies in 2018 and one from DC (Aquaman at the end of the year), means that for a whole year only reception to Justice League will really matter and that reception has been quite poor. I loved it personally but my opinion doesn't matter.

As I said in that other thread, well before JL was released, well before we had any idea how it would do, that it would probably have a greater impact on his 'report card' as head of all things DC than any other thing. Terribly unfair but that's where the money is. And now we know it's been an extraordinary failure and that is NOT good for Johns.

My feeling is that the movies need MORE Johns, not LESS. But he may never have the chance to prove how he can influence these movies in a positive fashion because WB is panicking over JL.

I care so much more about the comics than the films and on the comics I give Johns an A+. Since Rebirth DC has steadily outsold Marvel and I think that's for the first time ever. He should get TONS of credit for that since Rebirth (all of it, even how to "rebirth" characters that aren't involved with the "Rebirth" story) but I think he'll be judged more on reception to JL.

For my money, there's no one in the world I'd rather see running DC than Johns and I wish Didio and Lee would step aside or take clearly subordinate positions on the comic side. And I really hope they'll allow Johns to be very involved in turning around how people feel about DCEU films. The problem is the schedule. We have nearly a whole year to go before the next movie and that's going to be a tough year for Johns to get through with his position intact.

It's wholly unfair but I really do think that's the bottom line.

I don't understand at all why anyone would suggest putting Morrison in charge. He's a writer. A GREAT writer but a writer. He's not an editor and he's never done any other part of the job. If they can get him back on exclusive and give him some leadership role as well, AWESOME. But he shouldn't displace Johns who has been doing an amazing job. DC Comics haven't been in such great shape (critically and commercially) since before Marvel really hit the scene in the 60s(!!!).

No doubt Johns SHOULD remain in charge. The failure of JL and the long wait to change opinions with Aquaman could mean he just can't. They need to sacrifice someone and it's not going to be Snyder. They sacrificed him pretty much as soon as BvS came out.

Great points. I feel the same way about Cavill. He is one of (if not THE) faces of this franchise, so he is going to be unfairly associated with a Superman who has not been wholly accepted by the general public and has been in three critically panned films. They may recast him to get rid of the association, which would be really unfortunate. I hope he gets to stick around for at least one more movie with a different director who lets him shine. He's proven he can play a Superman that embodies what people expect of the character, it was just in this movie that isn't performing well and we had to put up with his monstrosity of a CGI face.

......

What about Greg Weisman?

Putting him in charge of one franchise might be good (though he may not be suited for live action). In charge of the whole DCEU though...eh. I find YJ lacking compared to Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man, both of which were fantastic. There is something very...bland, for lack of a better word, about his DC universe that I can't get to like. It might be the muted colors and more subdued character designs, I'm not sure.

[sakuyamons]

......

What about Greg Weisman?

Get him head of DCAU and I’ll buy the streaming service

[Osiris-Rex]

Totally true and Johns doesn't deserve the blame. But I'll repeat what I said in a "how's Johns doing as head of all things DC" thread:

Though DC is soaring above all competition on the comic book side, that side doesn't really matter at all. There's too little money in it.

The head of DC will be judged more than anything on the movies--fairly or not; in this case, not--because they matter more than any other aspect of Johns' role.

Geoff Johns is also involved with DC TV. He was one of the creators of Flash and Supergirl. While the live ratings on those shows aren't spectacular, they are the highest rated shows
on the CW and do well enough on Fox. And make a ton of money, over $1 billion a year, when considering syndication, the Netflix deals, and the CW app. The TV shows do almost as
well as the movies in terms of dollars earned per year and cost a lot less to make. Not to mention they are far more critically acclaimed by both the critics and the audience than most
the DCEU movies. Just look at the reactions to Crisis on Earth-X and compare that to Justice League.

[Ascended]

Putting him in charge of one franchise might be good (though he may not be suited for live action). In charge of the whole DCEU though...eh. I find YJ lacking compared to Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man, both of which were fantastic. There is something very...bland, for lack of a better word, about his DC universe that I can't get to like. It might be the muted colors and more subdued character designs, I'm not sure.

I can certainly respect that, but you seem to be in a minority in regards to YJ. And still, 2 outta 3 ain't bad (cue bad Meatloaf ballad!). Better than DC movies right now.

I don't know if he has the skillset to be more than the showrunner he currently is. And I think the areas where his strengths are the most obvious are areas where Johns is already doing solidly, if not extremely well (comics and animation). The real question about Weisman is if he could steer the films in a better direction than Johns could, and to that end I have no idea what Weisman's credentials look like. As far as I know he's not a live-action guy at all whereas Johns has done a lot of successful work in DCTV and has already got his fingertips into the films, with more direct influence forthcoming.

Still, Weisman is someone who I would like to see have more influence in DC.

[Trey Strain]

When someone has produced two big-budget movies that were critically reviled (Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad), and two that will rank among the top 15 money losers of all time (Green Lantern and Justice League), it's just not reasonable to pay him to produce another movie. There are too many people out there with better records who want to do it. The help just isn't that hard to find.

[numberthirty]

When someone has produced two big-budget movies that were critically reviled (Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad), and two that will rank among the top 15 money losers of all time (Green Lantern and Justice League), it's just not reasonable to pay him to produce another movie. There are too many people out there with better records who want to do it. The help just isn't that hard to find.

- I'm sure the critical hit stung while they were cashing those Suicide Squad checks.
- The idea that someone with a better record would have made Green Lantern less of a failure is laughable.

That's before you even consider if a business owes anyone reasonable actions.

[Trey Strain]

The Green Lantern movie is an adaptation of a Secret Origins story that Johns wrote.

The Justice League movie is also an adaptation of an Origins story that Johns wrote.

And now there's a Flashpoint movie on the drawing boards that Johns is slated to produce. That's not a good idea at all.

[sakuyamons]

This thread is going on circles.