Looking For My Donna

[Doctor Bifrost]

(Extra credit if you know where the thread title comes from!)

I don't write fan fiction, I really don't. I think fan fiction, but I don't write it.

But with all the discussion of "What kind of origin do you think Donna Troy should have?" - in the Donna Troy Appreciation thread and elsewhere - I finally just outlined my thoughts on the matter. I tossed it up on my (little-used) blog rather than put a whole bunch of text in this post.

http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/20...onna-troy.html

The point of the exercise is not "Look what a great story I wrote!" but rather "This represents the kind of Donna Troy - and her relationship with Diana, Hippolyta, the Amazons, the Greek mythological figures, and Man's World - I'd like to see." I've discussed that before, but sometimes it works better to show rather than tell.

I expect, of course, that some other people might like to see something else. This is just my Donna.

All comments welcome. But please remember it's a largely unedited draft. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

As ever,

Doctor Bifrost - a fan of Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl(s)

[MajorHoy]

As to where your thread title comes from, I would have guessed the old Ritchie Valens' song Donna, but while the sentiment fits, doesn't look like that's where the title/lyric is from.

[CRaymond]

Oy. This is a long time coming! Freelance, funerals and holidays are a lot.

ANYWAY This is a wonderful assembly, and like I said in private message, I have tons of questions.

Let's start with the title: I love the idea of Godsend, and it's a strong contender for a new superhero name.

And the last name Harbin, but you didn't even use the opportunity to make a Harbinger joke?

The notion of the Magic Mirror sounds REALLY FAMILIAR, but I love that you tied it to Daedalus and the siege of Troy. I LUUURVE the idea of interactions between mythological figures that weren't gathered in the Iliad or Odyssey.

My main criticism comes from story beats that feel very comicbooky. Like the idea that Aidia is corrupted, despite herself having a red flag mirrored name. Why not have her become Luicar, rather than Luicar become her? Amazons live in Paradise, but they need not be angels.

I like that Donna has memories and strife from her early life in Man's World, but I'm disappointed you chose to give her amnesia once she arrives on Themyscira. I think it's surprising that you situate her American family in Oregon. I'm a fan of moving the Wonder franchise to the west coast, though.

And at least you acknowledged that Donna sounds nearly exactly like Diana. And there wasn't a Troy Donna Hugh joke, but that one I don't blame you.

[tardisoperator]

Does the title thread come from the song in "Hair"?

[Doctor Bifrost]

Does the title thread come from the song in "Hair"?

It does, it does! Extra credit for you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMCfAtSCwsQ

On the one hand it's "just some hippie song" about a guy looking for this 16-year-old girl he knew. On the other, it has implicit references to the Virgin Mary and other divine figures. (Think, for instance, of the Maiden aspect of the Triple Goddess. The Triple Goddess is often associated with the Moon, and shows up in the writings of many authors, including Carl Jung and Neil Gaiman; she's all over Gaiman's Sandman.)

[CRaymond]

Ok here’s a solid question about this origin an any other:

What equity is there, aside from nostalgia or personal tastes, in tying Donna to divinities of the moon? It’s been done in the past but aside from Diana being the Roman name of Artemis, the link seems arbitrary.

Anyone can weigh in, I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts.

[Doctor Bifrost]

What equity is there, aside from nostalgia or personal tastes, in tying Donna to divinities of the moon? It’s been done in the past but aside from Diana being the Roman name of Artemis, the link seems arbitrary.

For me, it's not so much goddesses of the moon, as it is goddesses of night (Nyx), the moon (Selene, Artemis), and the stars (Asteria). Because (a) I want her to take on the name Dark Star, and (b) I think her lasso should be silver to contrast with Diana's golden, and we associate the moon and, to some extent, the stars with silver.

(Dark Angel and Dark Opal are alternative names, but not my first preference. I truly dislike Troia - in English it's not even a word; it has nothing to do with her powers or appearance; and in Italian it's used to mean "slut"!)

EDITED TO ADD: Adding a theme - "goddesses associated with the night" - enabled me to associate Donna with an unusual slice of Greek mythological figures: a primordial goddess (Nyx), a Titan (Selene), an Olympian (Artemis), and what many would consider (at their peril!) a "lesser goddess" (Asteria). (Certainly she's lesser known.) I thought this was more interesting, and more fun, than it being entirely Titans, or entirely Olympians, or etc.

[Jackalope89]

Ok here’s a solid question about this origin an any other:

What equity is there, aside from nostalgia or personal tastes, in tying Donna to divinities of the moon? It’s been done in the past but aside from Diana being the Roman name of Artemis, the link seems arbitrary.

Anyone can weigh in, I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts.

Fanfictiony trope. Used in an effort to make a character more fantastical. Some times providing special powers that, in the (often setup) situations, give the character overwhelming advantages. Can sometimes also be used to turn a character into a Gary Stue/Mary Sue.

It literally happens in every fandom ever. Particularly with original characters.

And, that's about as fanfictiony of a fanfiction that I've come across. Only difference, is that the "creator" (read; author) claims it isn't a written fanfiction.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Fanfictiony trope. Used in an effort to make a character more fantastical. Some times providing special powers that, in the (often setup) situations, give the character overwhelming advantages. Can sometimes also be used to turn a character into a Gary Stue/Mary Sue.

It literally happens in every fandom ever. Particularly with original characters.

And, that's about as fanfictiony of a fanfiction that I've come across. Only difference, is that the "creator" (read; author) claims it isn't a written fanfiction.

If you're talking about me, no, I fully admit this is a piece of fan fiction. I merely note that that's quite rare for me. (My original statement, "I don't write fan fiction," was meant to suggest: "until now.")

Is associating a character with the moon more of a fanfictiony trope than the sun, or the ocean, or the earth? If so, I was not aware of it.

[CRaymond]

Given the age and history of the characters, there’s considerable room for tropes, both genuine and meta textual.

Is associating a character with the moon more of a fanfictiony trope than the sun, or the ocean, or the earth? If so, I was not aware of it.

It does feel somewhat overwrought as a character trait, being specifically "moon-blessed"... Though I can't easily list fictional characters who exhibit similar origins. It just feels that way... and part of why I asked the question was to dissect or poll others' feelings on the matter. The moon phases have mythical links to menses, so I'm not opposed to Amazons being moon worshippers. The addition of a new divine character lurking in shadows rather than a more oblique relationship with a worshipped god/dess suggests either a preciousness or a potential plot twist.

Making Donna the night-time Diana is not new territory, and I originally thought Azzarello should've introduced Donna in the nu52 as a stealth-empowered American demigod. Instead we got an undead windstorm, and a guy with flies for eyes. If Diana was Zeus "thunderbolt", maybe Donna could be Hades' Helm of Invisibility? I ran with that notion very, very far, and straight into uncomfortable areas.

In any case, I follow with your idea of building Donna a pantheon of stellar and nocturnal gods to build her toward a stealthy Wonder called Dark Star.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Oy. This is a long time coming! Freelance, funerals and holidays are a lot.

ANYWAY This is a wonderful assembly, and like I said in private message, I have tons of questions.

Let's start with the title: I love the idea of Godsend, and it's a strong contender for a new superhero name.

And the last name Harbin, but you didn't even use the opportunity to make a Harbinger joke?

The notion of the Magic Mirror sounds REALLY FAMILIAR, but I love that you tied it to Daedalus and the siege of Troy. I LUUURVE the idea of interactions between mythological figures that weren't gathered in the Iliad or Odyssey.

My main criticism comes from story beats that feel very comicbooky. Like the idea that Aidia is corrupted, despite herself having a red flag mirrored name. Why not have her become Luicar, rather than Luicar become her? Amazons live in Paradise, but they need not be angels.

I like that Donna has memories and strife from her early life in Man's World, but I'm disappointed you chose to give her amnesia once she arrives on Themyscira. I think it's surprising that you situate her American family in Oregon. I'm a fan of moving the Wonder franchise to the west coast, though.

And at least you acknowledged that Donna sounds nearly exactly like Diana. And there wasn't a Troy Donna Hugh joke, but that one I don't blame you.

Thanks for your kind and thoughtful comments, CRaymond.

Harbin: I was thinking of Harbinger when I picked the name. (As I was thinking of Fay Stacey, who in one continuity was briefly Donna's adoptive mother, when I picked the name Fay.)

Aidia: Just an authorial choice. She has flaws; Luicar greatly magnifies them. I thought that, if Aidia was already pretty "villainous" without Liucar, it might have already come up in the last 3000 years. But this can be done a lot of different ways, including some in which Aidia is, or becomes, a villain without supernatural nudging.

Amnesia: I was a little reluctant, it being such a convenient trope. But I wanted the character (a) to have a solid footing in Man's World (rather than arriving in Themyscira as an infant), and (b) to experience Themyscira when she's really open to it, without constantly yearning for home, her father, etc. It's also one way to explain why the Amazons don't send her home immediately - they, and she, don't know where her home is. And since it's just "ordinary," trauma-induced amnesia like the kind that even happens in The So-Called Real World™ - as opposed to "the gods made everyone in the world forget Fay Harbin ever existed, and changed everybody's family photos of her too" (which is a trope I actively dislike) - I figured I'd go for it.

But other writers, I'm sure, would do it very differently. I put in the details to fill out the story logic. But the main purpose of the piece is to express the kind of Donna I want to see. I'm sure the same effect could be achieved with other details instead, and some readers would like those better.

Again, thanks for your comments!