How did Marvel fall this badly? :(

[Lady Warp Spasm]

OP, sorry about your brother.

For me, the $3.99 price point was the beginning of my pullback, then Brubaker left. Then Hickman. The price hikes. Constant events. Then the few characters I loved were almost written into the ground. Hydra Cap should have never been approved.

With CB coming in and the potential to right the ship with legacy characters and newer ones, perhaps Marvel can hit the bullseye again.

I am grateful I am not so vested in Marvel via vast majority of the characters, only a select few so I come and go as I please. I am optimistic for the first time in about five years though. That's always great.

[Phoenixx9]

Sorry for the loss of your brother and that at his end he was so upset with that which once brought him such pleasure.

I don't know when Marvel declined, if decline they did, as there are many current fans following both DC and Marvel. And while highly enamored, they do not like every change, update or rebirth. I guess it depends on point of view.

For me, the characters don't feel like those I know and love. They feel strange and foreign. Continuity and character personalities are practically non-existent to decades established history.

[mugiwara]

When it turned from House of Idea to House of Nostalgia.
When a large part of readers stopped wanted new, exciting things and asked to be pampered with stories and characters they already knew as kids.

[phantom1592]

I blame catering to 'grown ups'. Marvel and comics in general only cater to adult fans with their dark or gritty and mature storytelling... and they have lost the ability to appeal to the next generation. The spinner racks are gone, the comics in general are more pg-13 than they are the pg of even the 90's.

Then they have habits of alienating the older fans too... so basically their entire market is brand new adult fans and it's diminishing fast. Kids still like superheroes. They love the toys, the backpacks, the cartoons... but the comics aren't aimed at them anymore.

[Citizen Kane]

Kids still like superheroes. They love the toys, the backpacks, the cartoons... but the comics aren't aimed at them anymore.

Is that really a bad thing? Operating outside the kid-friendly label allows greater freedom in storytelling. I don't see the issue here.

[phantom1592]

Is that really a bad thing? Operating outside the kid-friendly label allows greater freedom in storytelling. I don't see the issue here.

1) you NEED to have a constantly renewing of fans. Since the 30's Comics were loved by kids who grew up and bought comics for their kids, who grew up and bought comics for Their kids... Now? That stopped. The focus is only on older readers who have too many other priorities to maintain their habit, and are quick to bail on the industry when things don't go how they like it. Kids would buy Superman or Spider-man because they loved Superman and Spider-man... not because of a certain writer or artist. Marvel NEEDS that kind of loyalty through thick and thin... and they've abandoned it. It's the difference between Shooter's 100,000 issues a month and the 30,000 you're lucky to see now.

2) Superheroes are intrinsically silly. The more serious you try to make someone dressed like a bat and/or a flag... the more absurd it gets. You need that kid-friendly imagination to even buy into the concept.

3) There can always be a few outliers that stretch some boundaries. However if 95% of your product isn't suitable for what used to be at least 80% of your market... it dwindles and dies.

I look around at the constantly glut of #1s, relaunches, reboots, and new continuities and it seems like comics are in their death throes. Constantly trying to stay above the water and gasping for air. They are trying everything... Anything to keep going.


As an added note, 'freedom in storytelling' isn't a good thing. Some of the greatest stories ever told were told under the CCA. Writers had to think and plan and get creative to include ideas and concepts with a subtlety that still resonates today. Restrictions and guidelines breed creative writers. The ability to do whatever shocking thing you want... that breeds laziness.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah I spend way more money than a 13 year old snot.

Marvel better cater to me!

Every era has good books. Marvel is fine and the current Legacy direction is real good.

The only problem is they are still publishing way too many books. Over production/saturation always puts a company into a slump, eventually. CB take note.

[ilostmyplace]

1) you NEED to have a constantly renewing of fans. Since the 30's Comics were loved by kids who grew up and bought comics for their kids, who grew up and bought comics for Their kids... Now? ...

As an added note, 'freedom in storytelling' isn't a good thing. Some of the greatest stories ever told were told under the CCA. Writers had to think and plan and get creative to include ideas and concepts with a subtlety that still resonates today. Restrictions and guidelines breed creative writers. The ability to do whatever shocking thing you want... that breeds laziness.

I'm just going to point out two things you said in one reply. You do know back in the 40s hey decade after the 30s people would take comics back in the day and burn them because a man Fredric Wertham wrote a book with no Scientific background and gained and lot of popularity. But was enough to send groups of people into mods witch got Comics back then in piles and piles of buring lots, affectively making the Golden age comics so rare today. Fredric Wertham was making more and more people Believe his nonsense, like Batman is gay, and horror comics where teaching kids to kill. Basically Fredric Wertham strawman his BS into a court hearing that made the CCA later, and proof to be a burden on the comic Industry. he even went after the creator of Wonder Woman and his private sex life. Just go watch the movie "Professor Marston and the Wonder Women". There was even a seen where people would line up to burn comics thinking that the devil was apart of making them. That is why the CCA had top go.

[phantom1592]

I'm just going to point out two things you said in one reply. You do know back in the 40s hey decade after the 30s people would take comics back in the day and burn them because a man Fredric Wertham wrote a book with no Scientific background and gained and lot of popularity. But was enough to send groups of people into mods witch got Comics back then in piles and piles of buring lots, affectively making the Golden age comics so rare today. Fredric Wertham was making more and more people Believe his nonsense, like Batman id gay, and horror comics where teaching kids to kill. Basically Fredric Wertham strawman his BS into a court hearing that made the CCA later, and proof to be a burden on the comic Industry. he even went after the creator of Wonder Woman and his private sex life. Just go watch the movie "Professor Marston and the Wonder Women". There was even a seen where people would line up to burn comics thinking that the devil was apart of making them. That is why the CCA had top go.

Yeah, I'm aware.

Comics were for kids... and when they (rightly or wrongly) weren't acceptable to parents for kids to read... the industry stepped up to convince the world that they were perfectly fine with their self-regulation. And then they prospered for another 50 years

There were a few companies that were crashed because of that, EC in particular. There was a really cool interview with the people of EC on the Tales from the Crypt season 1 extras, where even a few of the artists stepped up and said "yeah... we pushed the envelop when we could, and there were a few times we went way over the line..."

As for CCA 'Proof to be a burden on the comic industry'... The CCA was standard in Marvel till 2001 and DC till 2011. They did just fine under the code and even found creative ways to keep telling whatever stories they wanted. EC couldn't keep things going, but Marvel had a couple successful 'horror comic' runs with things like Tomb of Dracula, Monster of Frankenstein and the Midnight Sons books.

[Digifiend]

Inhumans vs X-Men which was to throw the Mutants to the wolves and push the Inhumans who they have the rights to.

Uh, you know the mutants WON in IVX, right? The terrigen cloud was destroyed at Medusa's own hand by a gadget another Inhuman, Moon Girl, helped Forge to build!

[Da Boat]

OP, you should have tried Marvel NOW(around 2013-14 or so?), it was a cool new jumping point for Marvel. It gave a solid facelift to X-Men, Cap, Thor, etc...

If they had continued in that vein I would still be a reader today. But the post Secret Wars screw it all up. And it has been controversies after controversies and characters being replaced, etc...

[DieHard200904]

Sorry about the loss. However, Marvel is still the #1 publisher in comics now. It brings in more revenue than the others. It's like saying brand x sucks because I don't buy it. That statement just doesn't take into account other customers. Plus change happens.

[Kuwagaton]

OP, sorry about your brother.

For me, the $3.99 price point was the beginning of my pullback, then Brubaker left.

Agreed. I don't have many gripes creatively, because there hasn't been one year in the last 20 that I haven't found something I truly like.

But $30 gets me about seven books after tax, assuming that none of them are a $5 issue. I might take 15 minutes to read an issue if I really pore over it, but I'm unlikely to read one issue more than three times ever, and I probably might just skim through. Meanwhile the same money gets me access to three streaming services a month that give me more content than I can possibly watch. I understand they have to make money, but at some point my wallet has a limit.

[CuteClops]

Uh, you know the mutants WON in IVX, right? The terrigen cloud was destroyed at Medusa's own hand by a gadget another Inhuman, Moon Girl, helped Forge to build!

Oh really? Reread IvX, please.
Madrox, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast and Storm were completely destroyed.
Medusa and Black Bolt, assassins and genocidal who were shown as heroes, and the X-Men as the villains.

BTW, do you remember this?

[Valamist]

Oh really? Reread IvX, please.
Madrox, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast and Storm were completely destroyed.
Medusa and Black Bolt, assassins and genocidal who were shown as heroes, and the X-Men as the villains.

BTW, do you remember this?

Yeah, the X-Men may not have become extinct or forced to leave the planet, but the event was no bright spot for the mutants. Bad characterization, and the push to make the Inhumans seem like the poor, innocent party was just horrifically bad. I am sorry, but its one sides culture against THE UNSTOPPABLE DEATH AND NEAR EXTINCTION OF A SPECIES. It really should not have been a 'Well, both sides have a point...' type of way, or at least if Marvel wanted it that way, they should have done a much better job. I mean, what was it Medusa says near the end? Something like 'No Inhuman transformation is worth even one Mutant life.' which comes as a punch in the gut for mutant fans, given how she knew of the M-Pox for months before IvX. Someone really should have given her Extraordinary X-Men #17. Seriously, I think everyone should read that issue. Its an emotion story about one dying girls wish to join the X-Men, and the best examples of why the X-Men where in the right.

Sorry if I got carried away there, its just... I love Marvel, but what they did with IvX was beyond stupid.