politics in comics

[Kintor]

That said, superhero comics are generally about unlicensed vigilantes who are filling a necessary role in a dangerous universe full of extra-dimensional threats and alien invaders and superhuman villains that the governments of most nations are pretty much useless against, so if you want a pro-government, pro-regulation sort of entertainment, superhero comics are probably never going to be your thing.

Is this what the thread has been reduced to? Can't discuss politics on an even footing so you try to present me as some sort of jackbooted thug that loves the government and wants to cover the world in endless bureaucracy? Then you finish up with the usual rhetoric of 'if you don't like it leave', completly oblivious of the widespread discontent amongst the Marvel fanbase. It's exactly this sort of drivel that has no place in comic books today, when nobody can have a reasoned discussion before ideological groupthink seeps into the conversation and turns everything into politics. There is a whole world outside Tumblr and the sooner Marvel realises that fact the better off they will be.

[Diamond]

Comics are a viable medium for politics. However, with some exceptions (notably Brian Vaughan), I think the opinions of the authors are very shallow and uninteresting.

[Prof. Warren]

Is this what the thread has been reduced to? Can't discuss politics on an even footing so you try to present me as some sort of jackbooted thug that loves the government and wants to cover the world in endless bureaucracy? Then you finish up with the usual rhetoric of 'if you don't like it leave', completly oblivious of the widespread discontent amongst the Marvel fanbase. It's exactly this sort of drivel that has no place in comic books today, when nobody can have a reasoned discussion before ideological groupthink seeps into the conversation and turns everything into politics. There is a whole world outside Tumblr and the sooner Marvel realises that fact the better off they will be.

If you want a reasoned discussion, how about backing up your arguments with specifics as many have asked you to do?

If you want to say that politics are everywhere at Marvel and that every book is a thinly disguised political tract and that every book is hampered by ideology, give specific examples from the actual books.

Every time someone has asked you to actually provide examples, you come up empty, deflect the question, accuse the poster of playing games, etc.

It's very obvious that you don't actually read anything current from Marvel and your opinions of what the books are like come from second hand sources and your own imagination.

You can't have a "reasoned discussion" about something if you aren't actually making claims based in reality.

My Marvel reads from last week were Old Man Logan, Moon Knight, X-Men Blue and Venom. Didn't see any politics in any of them. Did you?

[Kintor]

It's very obvious that you don't actually read anything current from Marvel and your opinions of what the books are like come from second hand sources and your own imagination.

You can't have a "reasoned discussion" about something if you aren't actually making claims based in reality.

Let's not be petty here. I daresay that I'm just as well-read as you are, if not more so. You see, I actually remember how things used to be at Marvel, before all the talent descended into this politically motivated insanity that is just driving fans away. I mean, the difference between the past and Marvel today is like night and day, you only to look through the back issues of even just three years ago to notice how much things have changed for the worse. Still, it's true that my Marvel pull list is decidedly smaller as of late, although I continue to buy Invincible Iron Man against my better judgement and I am interested in Marvel 2-in-1 later this month.

[WebLurker]

Let's not be petty here. I daresay that I'm just as well-read as you are, if not more so. You see, I actually remember how things used to be at Marvel, before all the talent descended into this politically motivated insanity that is just driving fans away. I mean, the difference between the past and Marvel today is like night and day, you only to look through the back issues of even just three years ago to notice how much things have changed for the worse. Still, it's true that my Marvel pull list is decidedly smaller as of late, although I continue to buy Invincible Iron Man against my better judgement and I am interested in Marvel 2-in-1 later this month.

As far as I can tell, the only people who're being "driven away" are a small section of the readership who seem to have a very entitled view of what should and should not be published. On top of that, they give such a broad definition of what is "political," that they can use it to confirm biases even when not relevant.

I have to agree with other users. I follow several Marvel series and most of them are not political. In fact, most of the ones I'm aware have a political angle are usually ones where that's to be expected, like a Captain America series.

[Prof. Warren]

Let's not be petty here. I daresay that I'm just as well-read as you are, if not more so. You see, I actually remember how things used to be at Marvel, before all the talent descended into this politically motivated insanity that is just driving fans away. I mean, the difference between the past and Marvel today is like night and day, you only to look through the back issues of even just three years ago to notice how much things have changed for the worse. Still, it's true that my Marvel pull list is decidedly smaller as of late, although I continue to buy Invincible Iron Man against my better judgement and I am interested in Marvel 2-in-1 later this month.

So, no actual examples to give.

It's not "petty" to ask someone who (repeatedly) asserts a point of view to give examples to back up their case. It's a pretty standard request, actually.

And I'm likely more well-read than you in regards to both past Marvel and present.

Speaking of politics in Marvel Comics, I just re-read Amazing Spider-Man #92 and it features a blowhard politician who's running for D.A. on a hardcore "law and order" campaign who JJJ and Robbie Robertson discovers is backed by hate groups.

In Jameson's office, Robbie calls the politician to task, telling him "I know what you really mean by law and order! I know what you think of minority groups -- and the plans you've got for them!"

To which the politician says "Anyone ever tell ya you know too much, black man?"

Jameson promptly calls him out as a bigot. The politician angrily slurs Robbie on his way out the door, calling him "Sambo."

This is a racially charged exchange, written by Stan himself and appearing in a comic cover dated January 1971. It's more incendiary and politically pointed than anything you'd see in a book today. So please, don't continue to talk about politics in comics unless you want to bring some real examples to the table.

[Red Robe Jaldari]

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I admire Oliver Stone as a filmmaker but I don't think Nixon was just about one thing. That is why he's an interesting character cause he was a complex dude that had this fall from grace. Stone pratically made him like Satan.

Again entertaining but ludicrus.

He did not. He was portrayed as a loyal husband, peacemaker, a man grappling with social change and a man resented certain part of the US elite. Far from Satan.

[Pav]

I wouldn't mind the politics in Marvel if it wasn't all so horribly one-sided lately.

I wouldn't mind actual politics if it wasn't so horribly one-sided lately.

-Pav, who prefers not living in 1984...

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Politics in comics worked when the writers used to put an effort and thought into the stories. Comics these days are 5 words on 20 pages with very little story, detail, or characterization. It's so half assed that I wouldn't trust a writer to be effective with the topic.

[Carabas]

I wouldn't mind actual politics if it wasn't so horribly one-sided lately.

-Pav, who prefers not living in 1984...

It's not really Marvel's fault that issues that have been non-political for almost as long as I live have suddenly been branded as extreme far left anti-american by the GOP and media.

[Username taken]

It's not really Marvel's fault that issues that have been non-political for almost as long as I live have suddenly been branded as extreme far left anti-american by the GOP and media.

Quoted for truth.

[CentralPower]

But in the real world, getting involved in 'that war in Europe' was *hugely* unpopular, and it wasn't until the attack on Pearl that those supporting intervention were able to 'sell' it to the American people, who, generally speaking, were fine with letting Hitler have Europe (and didn't believe stories about concentration camps or genocide of Jews, Romani, homosexuals, etc.).

On the other hand, do you really want people who would make a decision about going to war based on a comic to participate in elections?

Some folks are quite happy with the cheap mocks and partisan presentation. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that in and of itself. A person who is happy with that might be of the lowest common denominator (or at least need more discerning taste), or they might be intelligent and well informed people who are looking at comics more as a satire, where heavy-handed commentary is a viable narrative method.

At the most basic level, if a political question is worth writing about, it is worthy of good writing.

Saying that bad writing is okay because it is comics does not under-sell politics, it undermines the value of the comic industry as a whole. If comics are a place where bad writing is lauded (or at least not punished), then why bother with comics?

I think I'm just more willing than you are to accept the fact we're gonna get a bunch of crap in the process.

I accept that we are going to get crap. But, I am going to call it crap.

No, not so much. Writers, I expect to have a basic understanding of an issue. They don't need to be experts, nor do their arguments need to be air tight (I'll expect that from comic writers after the politicians themselves manage it) but they should put some effort into researching the material.

Spencer is a unique case (which is why I avoided talking about him earlier). At first glance, he is the most qualified person in the industry to write about politics. (Look at his background in politics.) Honestly, if I lived in OH, I probably would have considered supporting Spencer and his party. Spencer is also a damned good writer at a technical level. His non-political work is very readable. And, he can write about ideas.


But, his ethics and his partisanship more than balance against all of that.

Why should we hold writers to a higher standard for politics than we do physics, philosophy, psychology, biology, or anything else?

Politics is often a question of principle or ideology. Biology and physics are pretty unambiguous. Politics (or philosophy), less so.

There is also a practical consideration. People are much less likely to think that they understand physics or biology based on reading fiction.

However, people's politics and ideology are often impacted by what they read (fiction or otherwise). While readers are responsible for what they read and how they use it, there is arguably an ethical obligation on the writers.

Consider Spencer. He is closely affiliated with a political ideology. He is not a believer, he is an operative. His run on Captain America could fairly be seen as an attempt to create opportunities supporters of his party and ideology. The vicious partisanship that Spencer projects could be an attempt to manipulate voters.


There is nothing wrong with an ideologue making a case for their beliefs. But, it should be done well, and honestly. Politicomics often fail at one or both of those things.

to find the answers.
Would Australia gag Phantom? It’s difficult to say. Nobody is doing political commentary in Phantom so the point is moot. I would say a comic that tried to comment on government policy would get a visit from ASIO and that story shut down, yes, but we don’t have that situation so...

ASIO? Does Australia censor political commentary or entertainment?

We once had an attempt to create a world newspaper sourced from a multitude of journalists from different countries. The big boys gagged it after the first issue. It was so refreshing because it was something you hadn’t read before - the truth.

Please elaborate.

So a movie about Nixon being a crook and liar is too sensitive to make it to the screen? It’s the truth. That should be expressed because it shows a trusted official in a responsible position manipulating the system. I think society would like to be informed, otherwise, drug us with Hydra Caps meds and leave us alone and give us more TV.

A docu-drama is one thing. And, Nixon is good fodder for that sort of project.

But, I would think that people should be informed more by news than by art or entertainment.

I prefered characters to stay apolitical altogether. I don't want to know if Clint Barton is either from the left or right, that is not why I have loved this character for so long. I like him cause he is a rebel and hellraiser and he always crap on Cap's decisions. These guys are adventurers that mainly want to stop super-villains. That's it.

I would not mind seeing Marvel or DC consider the question of where masked heroes fall on the political spectrum. (This will never be a mainline project, for obvious reason.)

Are masked heroes liberal interventionists or conservatives that act outside a flawed government?

Yes, the Comics Code forced writers to reduce their ability to communicate to restrictive limits, but what do we want comics to be able to communicate? The world outside your window, or DC?

I want comics to be about ideas. I do not need comics to be about the world outside my window, because I can look out the damned window. I can read a newspaper.

"Red Son" and "Squadron Supreme" (1985) have more to say about what we should think about the role of the state than "Dark Reign", President Lex Luthor or any of the Trump riffs that have become common in the last few years.

But what if what he brought to the public was mostly bullshit?

Like when the Chinese leader talked to Nixon and the leader went "we understand each other cause we are both Evil".

Exactly. At that point, Stone was not even talking about Nixon. He was talking about a Nixon fantasy, while presenting it as Nixon.

[Carabas]

On the other hand, do you really want people who would make a decision about going to war based on a comic to participate in elections?

As opposed those that do so based on what they hear on Fox or Breitbart? Damn straight I do.

[Ascended]

I don’t mind if comic writers aren’t experts.

Oh, I don't expect them to be experts. I even said as much.

If they have a view on something they feel that’s wrong, go ahead and comment on it, even if it is ill informed.

I have no issue with a writer commenting on the social issues of the day, but I don't want them to be uninformed. If I want uninformed opinions I can read them on Facebook for free.

Do you meet people with opinions you always agree with? I doubt it. Let comic writers have the freedom to make commentary.

Again, as I said in my previous post, I welcome social commentary. But make sure you have a basic understanding of what you're saying. It's not hard. Thirty minutes of research will be more than enough to hit the major points of most political/social issues.

You'll also note I'm not saying writers have to agree with my politics. I enjoy reading commentary from people who have different views than I do. But a uninformed opinion is worthless. Comics cost 3-5 bucks. I'm not interested in paying for a commentary from someone who doesn't care enough to do their own due diligence.

But to just gag it, reduces the independence and freedom to put all the writers creativity on display.

I'm not saying it should be gagged. Quite the opposite actually. I'm saying a writer, who gets paid for the job, should do their research before writing their script. And that applies no matter what they're writing about, be it politics or history or whatever.

Yes, the Comics Code forced writers to reduce their ability to communicate to restrictive limits, but what do we want comics to be able to communicate? The world outside your window, or DC?

I want both, actually. I want books that are the world outside my window, and I also want modern day myth. And I want comics to communicate whatever the author is passionate about and interested in. But I won't give that writer free rein to make up whatever drivel they want and pass it off as an actual story.

[bloodofthegods]

As opposed those that do so based on what they hear on Fox or Breitbart? Damn straight I do.

Politics and history are best learned in text books and life experience. Not comic books, any kind of fiction or any biased news channels. News should be for reporting facts and events/incidents/current events. Not towing the line for whatever party they favor so they can get ratings and money.