politics in comics

[Vault]

Are masked heroes liberal interventionists or conservatives that act outside a flawed government?

Oh I like this. MARVEL was built on the idea that, unlike other superhero comics of the time, these characters would be normal people with extraordinary gifts who still lived in a world in which rent was paid, heroes worked real jobs, had real issues, pathos, etc. and weren't just constantly fighting bad guys. Part of being a normal person would be falling into certain ideologies; religious, political and philosophical. The challenge for the writer is to be able to portray a character in this ideology genuinely, which can be difficult if it's an ideology he or she does not subscribe to, especially when it comes to partisan politics. If you're liberal, you may tend to portray a conservative poorly, or vice versa.

Civil War was a pretty good portrayal of the debate over the Patriot Act (Give the government more power to spy on you for your protection or harm). Iron Man represented the protection of the people by the government and Cap represented the protection of people from the government, but both arguments had merit based on perspective; if I was a non-powered civilian, worried about Nitro blowing up my kids, I'd side with Stark. If I was a meta-human worried about being punished for being a hero, I'd probably side with Cap.

I'd like to see more stories that show that rift within the super-hero community (without it turning into another hero v hero cross-over event, just like... social tension, arguments, or different approaches to crime fighting) like we see within the United States. It's easy to paint those we disagree with as wrong. It's for a skilled writer to find the merits and flaws of both sides of contentious issue.

[Cloudman]

It's not really Marvel's fault that issues that have been non-political for almost as long as I live have suddenly been branded as extreme far left anti-american by the GOP and media.

Issues such as...?

[skyvolt2000]

Let's not be petty here. I daresay that I'm just as well-read as you are, if not more so. You see, I actually remember how things used to be at Marvel, before all the talent descended into this politically motivated insanity that is just driving fans away. I mean, the difference between the past and Marvel today is like night and day, you only to look through the back issues of even just three years ago to notice how much things have changed for the worse. Still, it's true that my Marvel pull list is decidedly smaller as of late, although I continue to buy Invincible Iron Man against my better judgement and I am interested in Marvel 2-in-1 later this month.

Please list these books with page numbers that you claim have made Marvel all political.

Because based on the books I have bothered to read from over 40+ years of Marvel-with some notable exceptions those political antics are not there.

Explain how these books are poltical

Starbrand & Nightmask
Moon Girl
Riri's Ironman
Mockingbird
All New Inhumans
Powerman & Ironfist
Scarlet Witch
Vision
All New Avengers
Ms Marvel
Ultimates
Mosaic
Miles Morales (aside from Civil War issue)
Spider-Gwen
Luke Cage
Cho Hulk
Rocket Raccoon
Groot
Nighthawk (I'll give you that one)
Black Panther (1-12) (ditto)
Sam Wilson (before the Rage storyline)
Slapstick

All books I have read.

Slapstick, a guy dressed as a clown with a chunky Black friend is politically motivated insanity that drove readers away. All 6K of them.

Moon Girl with her 7K is that offensive to drive folks away?

Starbrand & Nightmask-where 90% of the book took place OFF of Earth. Nightmask gets flirted by a gay black male.

All New Inhumans-the second arc dealt with Flint finding his real family OUTSIDE of the USA.

Is the real issue the fact we got too many folks who take issue with the POC, LGBT & woman now leading the stories?

It's fine for Peter Parker to talk down to Rocket Racer or fight skinheads at his college. However it's an issue for Rashun Lucas to look at Rage and get inspired to be a hero and Tony Stark's AI & Falcon help him?

Valerie Richards can make whatever she wants and that is fine but we got issues with Moon Girl & Riri doing it?

[BBeeryan]

I always get confused when people bring up the word politics and suggest that only politicians should take part. Can anyone provide for me a clear cut understanding of the definition of true politics? Like, what is the main goal of politics in its most basic form? I'm curious to know.

[Spiderfang]

I always get confused when people bring up the word politics and suggest that only politicians should take part. Can anyone provide for me a clear cut understanding of the definition of true politics? Like, what is the main goal of politics in its most basic form? I'm curious to know.

I think it's that (some) readers find topical issues to be divisive, which be that as it may does not mean that only politicians should address them. I mean there's discussing topical issues/current events (politics) in comics and then there's blatant propaganda. Some readers are accusing Marvel of the latter, when really all they are doing is addressing relevant issues which in the 2010's happens to mainly be racial/identity politics (not that there is anything inherently wrong in addressing them).

As per your question there isn't really any 'clear cut' definition of politics (please correct me if I am wrong), people opposed to seeing topical issues (specifically ones that they disagree with) brought up in their comics use "political propaganda" as an excuse to claim that a book is failing or hate on a publisher, despite the fact that politics and topical issues have been a core part of Marvel & DC infrastructure for decades.

TL;DR - people cry "politics" as a means of denouncing a subject as having failed because they do not/cannot grasp the importance of or cannot relate to the topics being addressed. "When did so & so become gay, why does he have to be gay now?? This is blatant propaganda! Politics ruined this character!!" - example.

[BBeeryan]

I think it's that (some) readers find topical issues to be divisive, which be that as it may does not mean that only politicians should address them. I mean there's discussing topical issues/current events (politics) in comics and then there's blatant propaganda. Some readers are accusing Marvel of the latter, when really all they are doing is addressing relevant issues which in the 2010's happens to mainly be racial/identity politics (not that there is anything inherently wrong in addressing them).

As per your question there isn't really any 'clear cut' definition of politics (please correct me if I am wrong), people opposed to seeing topical issues (specifically ones that they disagree with) brought up in their comics use "political propaganda" as an excuse to claim that a book is failing or hate on a publisher, despite the fact that politics and topical issues have been a core part of Marvel & DC infrastructure for decades.

TL;DR - people cry "politics" as a means of denouncing a subject as having failed because they do not/cannot understand or empathize with the topics being addressed. "When did so & so become gay, why does he have to be gay now?? This is blatant propaganda! This book/character is ruined!!"

There is most definitely a definition of politics. And I'm hoping that some people that actually have a problem with politics in their comics can provide a definition for that type of politics. I'm so glad someone created this thread. New favorite thread status!!!

[Spiderfang]

There is most definitely a definition of politics. And I'm hoping that some people that actually have a problem with politics in their comics can provide a definition for that type of politics. I'm so glad someone created this thread. New favorite thread status!!!

A lot of topics 'could' be considered political by definition, which is why I see it as less clear-cut than that. You're probably just going to get the usual "(insert topic here) agenda" response from them because I don't think they even know why they're opposed to these topics, other than that they have always been against them.

[BBeeryan]

A lot of topics 'could' be considered political by definition, which is why I see it as less clear-cut than that. You're probably just going to get the usual "(insert topic here) agenda" response from them because I don't think they even know why they're opposed to these topics, other than that they have always been against them.

Lol don't give away the game.

[Carabas]

Issues such as...?

Are white supremacists and nazis bad people?

Is America a melting pot of cultures?

Can you have female characters starring in superhero comics?

[Cloudman]

Are white supremacists and nazis bad people?

Is America a melting pot of cultures?

Can you have female characters starring in superhero comics?

1. These are all political. Just because there is wide consensus, that does not mean these things are apolitical.
2. Where have you seen these things referred to as being far-left issues?

[WebLurker]

Please list these books with page numbers that you claim have made Marvel all political.

Because based on the books I have bothered to read from over 40+ years of Marvel-with some notable exceptions those political antics are not there.

Explain how these books are poltical

Starbrand & Nightmask
Moon Girl
Riri's Ironman
Mockingbird
All New Inhumans
Powerman & Ironfist
Scarlet Witch
Vision
All New Avengers
Ms Marvel
Ultimates
Mosaic
Miles Morales (aside from Civil War issue)
Spider-Gwen
Luke Cage
Cho Hulk
Rocket Raccoon
Groot
Nighthawk (I'll give you that one)
Black Panther (1-12) (ditto)
Sam Wilson (before the Rage storyline)
Slapstick

All books I have read.

Slapstick, a guy dressed as a clown with a chunky Black friend is politically motivated insanity that drove readers away. All 6K of them.

Moon Girl with her 7K is that offensive to drive folks away?

Starbrand & Nightmask-where 90% of the book took place OFF of Earth. Nightmask gets flirted by a gay black male.

All New Inhumans-the second arc dealt with Flint finding his real family OUTSIDE of the USA.

Is the real issue the fact we got too many folks who take issue with the POC, LGBT & woman now leading the stories?

It's fine for Peter Parker to talk down to Rocket Racer or fight skinheads at his college. However it's an issue for Rashun Lucas to look at Rage and get inspired to be a hero and Tony Stark's AI & Falcon help him?

Valerie Richards can make whatever she wants and that is fine but we got issues with Moon Girl & Riri doing it?

You can add Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, All-New Wolverine, and all the Star Wars series, maxiseries, and miniseries to that list.

I think, at the end of the day, most of the politics people see are just them projecting their own biases onto things and trying to justify wanting Marvel to pander exclusively to them. Maybe not everyone, but a lot of the most vocal people I've heard online come across that way.

[ed2962]

1. These are all political. Just because there is wide consensus, that does not mean these things are apolitical.
2. Where have you seen these things referred to as being far-left issues?

2) Random posters on CBR. A larger number of comic book fans on You Tube. It's not uncommon to see some fans refer to the mere existence of Riri Williams or America Chavez as an example of the extreme left gone out of control.

[Kintor]

I think, at the end of the day, most of the politics people see are just them projecting their own biases onto things and trying to justify wanting Marvel to pander exclusively to them. Maybe not everyone, but a lot of the most vocal people I've heard online come across that way.

This dismissive attitude is really part of the problem, Marvel uses politics to divide it's audience and then tries to marginalise dissent when fans pushback. It's the great irony of Marvel's politics, so obsessed with being more inclusive and diverse that they actively target anybody who doesn't conform to the new groupthink. Marvel characters today are almost all devoid of personality, they have the same dialogue and spout the same political talking points. Because since Marvel's politics has become focused solely on personal identity all actions of the individual are now judged in political terms. This is why Marvel stories just aren't fun anymore, nobody is allowed to have fun because that would be an act of political betrayal against the group.

[WebLurker]

2) Random posters on CBR. A larger number of comic book fans on You Tube. It's not uncommon to see some fans refer to the mere existence of Riri Williams or America Chavez as an example of the extreme left gone out of control.

Oh, yeah, I see a lot of that.

This dismissive attitude is really part of the problem...

Just calling it like I see it.

...Marvel uses politics to divide it's audience and then tries to marginalise dissent when fans pushback.

I don't know. Seems like the "Marvel is SJW" crowd are the ones who're politicizing things and making the most racket. I honestly find them to be far more divisive and inspiring pushback than the stuff Marvel has done that I dislike the most.

Besides, why would Marvel want to divide the fanbase? As long as their reaching enough buyers to keep in the black and people are taking about them, I don't think that they really care that much what readers and fans think (so long as those fans aren't harassing them on social media).

It's the great irony of Marvel's politics, so obsessed with being more inclusive and diverse that they actively target anybody who doesn't conform to the new groupthink. Marvel characters today are almost all devoid of personality, they have the same dialogue and spout the same political talking points. Because since Marvel's politics has become focused solely on personal identity all actions of the individual are now judged in political terms. This is why Marvel stories just aren't fun anymore, nobody is allowed to have fun because that would be an act of political betrayal against the group.

Don't know what to tell you. I follow several current Marvel series and have read some additional ones from within the past couple years. I've found them to be anything but the same, having little to nothing to do with politics, and very much in the spirit of fun and personality. Can't speak for the Marvel employees and freelancers, since I'm not one, but is it possible that you're accidentally using confirmation bias? It is human nature to find it easier to believe a narrative that fits your preconceptions than a narrative (if not the truth) that doesn't.

[jackolover]

But what if what he brought to the public was mostly bullshit?

Like when the Chinese leader talked to Nixon and the leader went "we understand each other cause we are both Evil".

I mean....

That is rather blunt, isn’t it?