Wonder Woman villain: how would you fix him/her: Circe

[Lex Luthor]

The greatest supervillains have origins and motivations that most of us come very close to sympathizing with, ..and I see no reason why Circe can't be one of them. I think Luthor, the Joker and Magneto are prime examples of that. Simply put, even though they're bad guys, who'd kill us, as soon as look at us, ..most of us get why they're doing what they're doing. Furthermore, from some angles - in the hands of some very skilled writers - their actions even seem almost justified, sometimes...almost. Circe, unfortunately, hasn't had that sort of writer tell her stories.

Doesn't mean it can't happen. The heroic Bride in the Kill Bill movies (and she is heroic) deserves her revenge. Maybe, one day, in some classic story, ..so will Circe.

And another thing...I never said we were supposed to sympathize with Circe, completely. I've said 'very close' or something like that, throughout the discussion. Hope none of you missed that.

Does Joker really have an origin? I know he might have had a few here or there but for the most part its very vague and he still works as a villain.

[Slowpokeking]

Just asking OP, can you make a design a villain for WW thread?

[daBronzeBomma]

Circe always seems kind of ... stuck.

She's got the same problem that Brainiac and Two-Face have, to a different degree.

She'd probably make a better or fuller enemy than the classic #1 (Cheetah), but the motivation that's presented just doesn't hit as well.

There's an idea I'd love to see tried out somwhere, maybe in Elseworlds first or a non-continuity-bound story, if not main canon:

What if Circe was Hippolyta's biological mother? And thus Diana's maternal grandmother?

Boom. Instant stronger connection. And a host of reasons to mess with Diana.

But who traditionally has been Hippolyta's mom (and Diana's grandma)? Does she even have one? Seems like Hippolyta just pops into existence full-grown with no parents of her own most of the time.

[Mel Dyer]

Helios wasn't the main force in that story, it was Hyperion. In fact Helios wasn't even one of the 12 Titans who were named as part of that group.Enh, you know who wrote THE definitive origin for Circe right? Homer. Hard to get more of a "classical" origin than that.

Also, in the classic version Circe was born with powers and isn't really human. She's not really a sorceress since she's not channeling power. She wields her OWN power. It's that lack of humanity that makes her act like a diva. She knows she's too powerful for any mere mortal to best her so she treats them like toys.

In at least one comic, it's said that the DC version of Circe(not Hecate) is a daughter of Hyperion...

Thank you for jogging my memory!

I believe it was Phoebe, who, recalling the Titanomachy (in "Who Is Wonder Girl?"), ..said something about the Olympians casting them out of Heaven, as being similar to the way she and her fellow Titans killed their own parents. One of those parents, we know, was Helios.

In any case, Helios was a beautiful, magnificent sun god, who embodied all of the inspiring things that sun gods typically embody to their human worshippers, ..only to be brought low and reduced to a frail, aging shadow of what he was. How did Circe feel about that? What did Circe learn from it? Did it shape who she became? Maybe...maybe, there's a story, there.

Basically, Circe is the progeny of these fallen gods, who once possessed truly awesome power and were worshipped by human beings, dependent on their favor, ..before they were cut down by the Olympians. As a child, she saw the horror of what happened to them and the aftermath of it, up close! This was real for her - not something playing out in a library book. She must have felt something about it! And human beings, fearing the scorn of the Olympians, discarded her father and the other Titans, as though they'd never been gods, at all. She must have felt something about that, too. So, where Circe's concerned, I think we must (at least) ask...

Is there a story, there? Who knows.

If she's to be Diana's archenemy, I think Circe needs a BIG story, nearly as big as Diana's. For my money, if the 'scorned diva' thing is to be her narrative centerpiece, her origin's got to have something in it about loss and struggle, ..and we need to see her, at that low point in her life, and decide if we care or not. If she's ever going to be WW's most important supervillain, I don't think the Circe story can be all about big, purple hair, attitude and chewing the scenery. There really must be more there...she needs it!

Circe: Year One...it can happen, with the right writer. It can happen.

[AmiMizuno]

Circe always seems kind of ... stuck.

She's got the same problem that Brainiac and Two-Face have, to a different degree.

She'd probably make a better or fuller enemy than the classic #1 (Cheetah), but the motivation that's presented just doesn't hit as well.

There's an idea I'd love to see tried out somwhere, maybe in Elseworlds first or a non-continuity-bound story, if not main canon:

What if Circe was Hippolyta's biological mother? And thus Diana's maternal grandmother?

Boom. Instant stronger connection. And a host of reasons to mess with Diana.

But who traditionally has been Hippolyta's mom (and Diana's grandma)? Does she even have one? Seems like Hippolyta just pops into existence full-grown with no parents of her own most of the time.

What about the fact Hecate was only than any of the titans ? I mean with Helios being her father it makes Circe both a Titian and something unknown. Helios is killer and then her husbands and sons. It would be interesting if Hippoltya was her own daughter but that also should mean all of Hippoltya’s sister should be her daughters too.

It shouldn’t be a mother’s angry that makes her hate the amazons but something else. Finds what Hecate’s family is and kills them. I wonder what if we make up the idea part of Hecate. To you what should Hecate be and what her family is ?

I think the whol turn men into animals should be kept. But what if she doesn’t just use it on human men but on the gods. For her to being back her father, sons and family she needs the gods blood and body to do it.She is mad that Diana would still worship the ones that killed her family. I don’t honk it should be all the gods. Maybe a mess if Greek and the titans. Circe keeps getting stop by Hippoltya and locked away. Centuries later the same thing with Diana. However, what if Hippoltya did it out to protected her mother. Where Diana is following the gods.

[CRaymond]

Is this where we talk crazy ideas?

[AmiMizuno]

Is this where we talk crazy ideas?

You can if you want to

[AmiMizuno]

How should Circe look? I mean should she work to blend in or something else? Maybe she should get paid for her services as a witch.

[marhawkman]

Well, Circe's one of those characters that while she has a "classic look"... has good reason to switch costumes at will. I mean she can use magic to change clothes by snapping her fingers.

Should Circe do work-for-hire? Hmm... Fundamentally there's no real obstacle to it. It just needs an in-universe explanation of why she feels like it. That doesn't even need to be complex, something simple as accumulating power would work.

[AmiMizuno]

I did like the look Rucka gave her. It gives her a chance to blend in. Well work for hire would make sense for a way to accumulate power. Maybe a blood contract that once she does what you want she also gets what she wants.f you don't give her what she wants then you turn into one of the many creatures she has.

[WonderScott]

I see Circe as more enigmatic than a work-for-hire character. She's someone manipulating events and people and running the show. Like the Amazons, Circe's had eons of immortality to hone her craft. Unlike the Amazons, she uses those skills for self-serving or destructive means.

Her Hyperion and Perseis parentage gives her a claim to godhood, that balances nicely with the Olympians and demigod Wonder Woman.

My take on Circe's design is she should have a classical look as well as a contemporary look. I hate it when the gods are stagnated to only wearing Hellenistic robes and armor. They're gods and have been interacting with society all through the ages, adopting the look of the time to blend in and lend a hand, whether helpfully or capriciously.

Circe does need a standard color scheme though, except when deep on the down low. I vote for green, deep purple/magenta, and gold as her signature colors. The green and purple has/had worked for Lex and the Joker and Catwoman for a long time, Circe can work it too.

[AmiMizuno]

I see Circe as more enigmatic than a work-for-hire character. She's someone manipulating events and people and running the show. Like the Amazons, Circe's had eons of immortality to hone her craft. Unlike the Amazons, she uses those skills for self-serving or destructive means.

Her Hyperion and Perseis parentage gives her a claim to godhood, that balances nicely with the Olympians and demigod Wonder Woman.

My take on Circe's design is she should have a classical look as well as a contemporary look. I hate it when the gods are stagnated to only wearing Hellenistic robes and armor. They're gods and have been interacting with society all through the ages, adopting the look of the time to blend in and lend a hand, whether helpfully or capriciously.

Circe does need a standard color scheme though, except when deep on the down low. I vote for green, deep purple/magenta, and gold as her signature colors. The green and purple has/had worked for Lex and the Joker and Catwoman for a long time, Circe can work it too.

Maybe with the Amazons I could see them with the Amazons they wear the robes but then I wonder how much should the Amazons be mordenizes but also still keep the Greco-roman design.

So while in the outside world what she should be during to blend in? Should she be an cult leader to get more people to follow her?

[WonderScott]

Maybe with the Amazons I could see them with the Amazons they wear the robes but then I wonder how much should the Amazons be mordenizes but also still keep the Greco-roman design.

So while in the outside world what she should be during to blend in? Should she be an cult leader to get more people to follow her?

I see it this way; we all still wear pants, shirts, skirts, shoes, shorts, etc. but they have all changed over time. So should the Amazons. They'd be constantly redesigning their clothes and styles, just like we would. As a people, they'd be inspired and innovative over time in producing clothes and designs that reflected their constantly evolving culture.

Same with architecture. On Themyscira, we'd see some older designed buildings and a coliseum, etc., but also new modern designs throughout the city too.

As for Circe, she's a master of transformation and mesmerization - just ask her Beastiamorphs. I see her using her magicks to blend in with the crowd if it suits her needs or to appear regal and formidable if allowing an audience with her in her throne room on Aeaea.

She may have a cult that's of the own cult members doing, but I don't see her as a leader of a vast organization of people or a company or anything like that. I see her manipulating those types of people though to her own ends. For instance, I can see her trying to manipulate Lex Luthor or Ra's al Ghul clandestinely through agents and masking influences... She's sneaky and a planner and tries to be one step ahead of everyone, to me.

[marhawkman]

Yeah Circe has demonstrated she can look like pretty much anything she once. I mean, she once decided to make herself strong enough to fight WW in a FIST fight! She even changed her outfit to something that works for hand to hand combat. She's not a shapeshifter though. So anyone who knows her face should be able to recognize her.

[AmiMizuno]

How modern should the buildings look on paradise island? I guess Earth One kind of thing. I'm guessing Circe could easily live the high life but if you didn't want to do the whole diva personality she should have a good amount of money but not living too lavish