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  1. #286
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    There was a Fantastic Four comic where the FF shrink themselves to deal with their friend Willie Lumpkin's seemingly inoperable brain tumor.

    Playing favorites like that is also nothing new.
    yeah, i guess that's what i'm wondering. like, is it a slippery slope? today, we help peter with his aunt. then comes back with her neighbour who has cancer. then the neighour brings two friends with terminal conditions. etc.

    i feel like this is one of those jenga moments in a universe like this, where if we touch that block, the whole thing falls down
    troo fan or death

  2. #287
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    yeah, i guess that's what i'm wondering. like, is it a slippery slope? today, we help peter with his aunt. then comes back with her neighbour who has cancer. then the neighour brings two friends with terminal conditions. etc.

    i feel like this is one of those jenga moments in a universe like this, where if we touch that block, the whole thing falls down
    The issue with Dr. Strange and the scene where he magics Spidey around so he can ask every famous super genius at Marvel for help is one of those scenes that didn't need to exist. It contributes absolutely nothing to the story, and instead weakens the story overall.

    Honestly, if Spider-Man went to Dr. Strange's house and Dr. Strange wasn't home, it wouldn't be an issue at all. "How dare Dr. Strange not be home! Spider-Man might have an emergency and need his help!" is not a valid criticism.

    But that scene is there. And its follow up with Reed Richards, Hank McCoy, Dr. Doom, etc. is there. So I think it is fair game to criticize OMD for their handling of this.

  3. #288
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The issue with Dr. Strange and the scene where he magics Spidey around so he can ask every famous super genius at Marvel for help is one of those scenes that didn't need to exist. It contributes absolutely nothing to the story, and instead weakens the story overall.

    Honestly, if Spider-Man went to Dr. Strange's house and Dr. Strange wasn't home, it wouldn't be an issue at all. "How dare Dr. Strange not be home! Spider-Man might have an emergency and need his help!" is not a valid criticism.

    But that scene is there. And its follow up with Reed Richards, Hank McCoy, Dr. Doom, etc. is there. So I think it is fair game to criticize OMD for their handling of this.
    hang on...so strange teleports spidey to all of marvel's big guns for help and everyone just says nahhhhh?
    troo fan or death

  4. #289
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    hang on...so strange teleports spidey to all of marvel's big guns for help and everyone just says nahhhhh?
    Pretty much.

    (The only one there who really has an excuse is Hank Pym. And that's only because that was actually a Skrull posing as Pym.)

  5. #290
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Pretty much.

    (The only one there who really has an excuse is Hank Pym. And that's only because that was actually a Skrull posing as Pym.)
    mmm, that sounds a lot like the jenga thing i was getting at. like, why highlight one of the biggest problem spots in your make believe universe?
    troo fan or death

  6. #291
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    speaking of socio political times and moves, i wonder how TPB would be received if it were released today? robyn wright did everything she could with buttercup...
    Never had a huge problem with the character in the movie. The book version of the character was far worse, believe you me.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiteshark View Post
    I find it silly that some readers just like Spider-Man stories with him being married with Mary Jane.
    So i can not relate to that.
    Some of us were introduced to Spider-Man through stuff like the Raimi movies and Ultimate comics. Ergo, that specific relationship is part of Spidey 101. Part of the elevator speech, as it were. To be totally honest, alternate girlfriend scenarios feel weird to me (although to be fair, Chat Sanduval from the Marvel Adventures series did work quite well as a character and I was hoping Liz Allen would be the leading lady for the whole MCU Spidey series).

    Long story short, what works for you may not work for other people, regardless how odd it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiteshark View Post
    And is disapointing to see some readers think that one of the best super heroes ever created can just have stories with him being married.
    Is like saying that SuperMan stories can only be good with him married to Lois Lane.But i digress.
    The marriage of Peter and MJ was something that was in the stories for twenty years,more that enough time to a status quo be explored in the stories but this does not mean that from now on there can be only good stories with a married Spider-Man.
    So as a reader Marvel not leting their characters get boring as when they made Peter to be single again is why i keep on Reading the Spider-Man stories.
    By that reasoning, Batman having a butler named Alfred has been done to death and needs to go away. Which I think is kind of the point for me. Taking MJ out was essentially like pulling Alfred out of Batman and having the Caped Crusader do his work by himself. The stories may work on a technical level, but something's missing.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #292
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Never had a huge problem with the character in the movie. The book version of the character was far worse, believe you me.
    yeah, i've read it and i agree. one of those times where the movie adaptation > book

    but i imagine in this day and age a female character who is more or less a plot device for a boys own adventure and waits patiently for him to rescue her (while also being tricked into proving her fidelity toward him) while drawing power and solace from her faith in him might raise a few eyebrows these days. and she's the titular character

    at the very least it'd miserably fail the bechdel test
    Last edited by boots; 12-02-2017 at 02:26 AM.
    troo fan or death

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    By that reasoning, Batman having a butler named Alfred has been done to death and needs to go away. Which I think is kind of the point for me. Taking MJ out was essentially like pulling Alfred out of Batman and having the Caped Crusader do his work by himself. The stories may work on a technical level, but something's missing.
    Personally, I think Alfred should be taken out of the equation - at least for a time. Every time I see an issue with Batman out in the field taking to Alfred back at the Batcave, I'm overcome with an enervated feeling of been-there/done-that. I mean, we've seen the exact same scene play out countless, countless times. It wouldn't hurt to shake things up a bit. But I think DC fans really love tradition above all else. Thudding, repetitive, done-to-death tradition.

    As for that being comparable to Peter and MJ, I don't think the two really line up. MJ was a fixture of the book for a good chunk of time but was never a mainstay in quite the way Alfred has been. There's those who relate to MJ being there because that's how the book was when they were introduced to it but it's not something that fans across the board can agree is a permanent fixture of Spidey's world in the same way that Alfred is in Batman's.

  9. #294
    Incredible Member ShaggyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Aunt May wasn't dead in OMD. She was dying. And super heroes get involved in saving people who are otherwise dying all the time.
    except when they dont. captain marvel comes to mind.

  10. #295
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaggyB View Post
    except when they dont. captain marvel comes to mind.
    That was more "can't." (Until comic writers retconned in stuff like "Black Panther has the cure for cancer in our comic universe but won't share it because reasons.")

    The whole point is to say that even with all their fantastic powers, there are limits to what people can do. Reed Richards and Tony Stark can't solve every problem.

    And then they had Mephisto come in and solve the problem with his demon magic.

    It undermines the whole point. The only reason Dr. Doom, who has a working time machine and whose primary motivation for doing anything in life is to one-up Reed Richards, to the point that he actually delivered Reed's daughter strictly because Reed could not, could not save Aunt May was because the plot demanded it.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Personally, I think Alfred should be taken out of the equation - at least for a time. Every time I see an issue with Batman out in the field taking to Alfred back at the Batcave, I'm overcome with an enervated feeling of been-there/done-that. I mean, we've seen the exact same scene play out countless, countless times. It wouldn't hurt to shake things up a bit. But I think DC fans really love tradition above all else. Thudding, repetitive, done-to-death tradition.

    As for that being comparable to Peter and MJ, I don't think the two really line up. MJ was a fixture of the book for a good chunk of time but was never a mainstay in quite the way Alfred has been. There's those who relate to MJ being there because that's how the book was when they were introduced to it but it's not something that fans across the board can agree is a permanent fixture of Spidey's world in the same way that Alfred is in Batman's.
    Very much agreed.
    Batman is a golden age comic book character and Spider-Man is a Silver Age comic book character,just from there the comparisions between their suporting cast can not be the same.
    Spider-Man stories had way more romantic interests (Liz Allan,Betty Brant,Felicia Hardy,Gwen Stacy,Michelle,Carlie,Bobbi Morse) to make this idea that good stories featuring Spider-Man can only be made with Mary Jane be something that i find to be consistent with how the stories have been.

  12. #297
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ossie View Post
    I wonder if Quesada ever gets sick of being asked about OMD?
    I'm definitely sick of reading about it
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  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ossie View Post
    I wonder if Quesada ever gets sick of being asked about OMD?
    When you make a story this controversial, you will never be forgiven for it.

  14. #299
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    I'm definitely sick of reading about it
    so that's what your profile avatar is doing
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  15. #300
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    When you make a story this controversial, you will never be forgiven for it.
    neverrrrrrrrrr
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