Aang vs Thor

[Carabas]

[QUOTE=Agent Z;3285234]

She's not attracted to power. She's attracted to being able to do her job, and Unalaq was the only one who appeared to be able to even affect the rampaging spirits.
She's the Avatar. She has the responsibility to learn that. And she used what she learned to save the world.
While Korra may want to do her job, she seems to ignore there are right and wrong ways to do it.

She gets it right a lot more than she gets it wrong.

And her decision to go with Unalaq and learn his spirit mojo proved to absolutely have been the correct one.

Like what?

Like Suyin's "go forthand murderise Kuvira and her army".
Like Tenzin's "just ignore this evil spirit stuff for now and go visit the four Air Nomad temples (which would have been futile).
Like "Tonraq's "don't do anything rash" while that was exactly what was called for.

Nevermind that most of Korra's early problems stem from Tonraq and Tenzin's decision to shelter her from the entire world growing up. She'd probably still be stuck in that White Lotus compound if those two had had their way.

And nevermind she often gets a lot of completely contradictory advice from various people so she has to ignore some of them.

This is how tyrants tend to think.

Also how superheroes think. Also what her mentors tell her to do.
Korra: "What if Unalaq was right when he said the Avatar shouldn't be a bridge between the two worlds? What if Avatar Wan made a mistake when he closed the portals? What if humans and spirits weren't meant to live apart? Well, what do you think I should do?"
Tenzin: "I think you should trust your instincts. There is nothing else I can teach you. You are the Avatar. Whatever your decision, I support you."

[Nik Hasta]

This is how tyrants tend to think

I'll happily let Carabas fight their own corner for the rest of the points raised in this post but I just want to point out a couple of things on this point:

Due to Korra being selected by cosmic destiny and circumstances of birth, it is her choice to make a lot of the world changing calls in her reality. The system itself may be somewhat tyrannous, in that lays vast sociological, cultural and (effectively) military responsibility over to one person, but that does not make Korra herself a tyrant. She has to make the call, that's her role in life. To run from it would be to shirk her responsibilities as guardian of balance and the bridge between the physical and metaphysical.

I will note that Korra consistently strives to try and make what she perceives as the right choice and does, on many occasions, agonises at length over what is the best call to make and asks people for advice a lot and tries to take in as many views as possible.

Aang did the same thing. He agonised over having to compromise his humanitarian beliefs of non-violence with the fact that he was going to have to face Ozai and probably have to kill him. As such, he found another way by inventing Spirit Bending but the decision was always going to be his as to what happened.

Both had to make the call, that was the point of both series up to a point. Neither are tyrants. Both listened to a lot of people, sought counsel from more experienced or wiser people all the time and both tried to use their power responsibly.

Equating the actions of person who has a destined role in their reality to lead to actual tyrants is pretty reductive because we don't have destiny in the real world.

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

Korra as bad as Azula? Really? In some ways Korra was an even better Avatar than Aang behavior wise.

[WhichDrWhowins]

I'd count that as a win.

I never finished the series what I understood is if he was killed while in the Avatar State he can not be reborn. I never finished this show it was like 4-6 seasons? 60 episodes? Him getting powered up I'm guessing that's the final chapter, becomes this ultimate UFC fighter and a kind of religious mumbo jumbo of Nickelodeon meets dragonball meets game of thrones meets Bodhicitta Panchen Dalai Lama or something? Some one told me he finishes the story as an old man and it goes around in a Reincarnation circle. He becomes the ultimate powered up bender or what? Or does Aang in the series later die and get reborn Hinduism/Buddhism style? The cartoon series is way too long for me, I might even prefer the movie at least it had they tried to condense the story and it had some ok special fx...i know preferring the movie to the source material! heathen blasphemy heretics!

Isn't Thor shown surviving in space in the original Infinity War leak (when he hits the GotG's windshield)?

Loki has survived in space if I recall correct, pretty sure there are also moments with Ego, Thanos, Dormammu hanging out in space, also a scene of Kurt Russel onto the top of the spaceship, waving to Starlord and then proceeded to destroy an entire space fleet

[Dark Soul # 7]

I never finished the series what I understood is if he was killed while in the Avatar State he can not be reborn. I never finished this show it was like 4-6 seasons? 60 episodes? Him getting powered up I'm guessing that's the final chapter, becomes this ultimate UFC fighter and a kind of religious mumbo jumbo of Nickelodeon meets dragonball meets game of thrones meets Bodhicitta Panchen Dalai Lama or something? Some one told me he finishes the story as an old man and it goes around in a Reincarnation circle. He becomes the ultimate powered up bender or what? Or does Aang in the series later die and get reborn Hinduism/Buddhism style? The cartoon series is way too long for me, I might even prefer the movie at least it had they tried to condense the story and it had some ok special fx...i know preferring the movie to the source material! heathen blasphemy heretics!

Avatar the Last Air-Bender is 61 22 minutes episodes spread out over 3 seasons.

That's really not a lot compared to other series. But hey, if you don't want to go through that, that's fine for you.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Korra as bad as Azula? Really? In some ways Korra was an even better Avatar than Aang behavior wise.

Ehh.......

Aang was pretty good at being the Avatar once he accepted his role (post running away and all).


I would argue Korra wasn’t as good an Avatar as Aang (purely on dint of, you know, being responsible for losing all her past lives through a combination of being foolish/immature), and other things.

Mind you, comparing her to Azula seems.....woefully wrong on so many levels.

[WhichDrWhowins]

That's really not a lot compared to other series. But hey, if you don't want to go through that, that's fine for you.

I rarely watch a show beyond 2 seasons unless it is really, really good there is also a spin off or continuation The Legend of Korra if I'm correct here?

[Carabas]

I never finished the series what I understood is if he was killed while in the Avatar State he can not be reborn.

Aang will probably still be reborn, but the Avatar cycle is ended. No more Avatars.

I never finished this show it was like 4-6 seasons? 60 episodes?

Three seasons, 61 episodes.

Him getting powered up I'm guessing that's the final chapter, becomes this ultimate UFC fighter and a kind of religious mumbo jumbo of Nickelodeon meets dragonball meets game of thrones meets Bodhicitta Panchen Dalai Lama or something?

Not quite. Definitely no UFC anything.
It was all firestorms and chucking mountains at people. And then taking the bad guy out peacefully.

Some one told me he finishes the story as an old man and it goes around in a Reincarnation circle.

Eh, not that I recall.

He becomes the ultimate powered up bender or what?

That is what the Avatar is.

Or does Aang in the series later die and get reborn Hinduism/Buddhism style?

No, happy ending, gets the girl and all.

I might even prefer the movie at least it had they tried to condense the story and it had some ok special fx...

[master of read]

Aang will probably still be reborn, but the Avatar cycle is ended. No more Avatars.

Three seasons, 61 episodes.


Not quite. Definitely no UFC anything.
It was all firestorms and chucking mountains at people. And then taking the bad guy out peacefully.


Eh, not that I recall.
That is what the Avatar is.

No, happy ending, gets the girl and all.

pretty much all this. aang does fight ozai but it's the lead up to it that makes it also worth watching. as nik mentioned, aang was caught between his own beliefs (his respect for all life) and the responiblities of his status as the avatar (preventing a mass genocide). everyone was telling him that he needed to kill ozai to stop the war, including zuko, ozai's son. but aang couldn't bring himself to even think of taking another life, even if it's a power mad tyrant like ozai. he talked to his friends and talked to his past selves but they were all telling him the same thing: you gotta merc his ass. only after talking to a lion-turtle does another option present itself.

but yeah, put in with the rest saying that azula and korra being similar is bullshit.

i mean they are some similar traits but they are two completely different people.

[master of read]

Also, are you seriously linking Korra's decision to run away from basically everyone between seasons three and four to Azula's consistently manipulating everyone around her through deceit and intimidation?

Really? Like, let me break this down real quick.

To recap, a seventeen year old girl is kidnapped by a terrorist group who poison her and attempt to kill her. Said teenager is essentially a quasi-religious figure who is used to having literally the entire world look to her guidance, leadership and strength. She is already in an incredibly vulnerable place as her actions in the last world altering crisis that she had to deal with broke the cycle of reincarnation that had been running literally since the times when mythology were true. She has intense guilt over this matter but has persevered anyway. She survives the murder attempt, but is temporarily paralysed from the waist down.

So, robbed of the majority of her powers, physically infirm and surrounded by people whom she feels judgement from, whether that is accurate or not, she decides to run away from her life to try and get some space from her responsibilities and her cosmically appointed role in the world.

The only person she feels able to talk to is someone who knows has undergone a similarly worldshattering event in their personal life, someone who she didn't feel judged by and someone who she was starting to feel attraction and romance toward.

Do you not see why she did the things that she did? Korra also apologised for not telling people where she was going but she needed space.

Conversely, Azula lied so much it was practically her default response because she wanted power and because it amused her.

These two things are not remotely the same.

to note, azula was so use to lying that she was able to fool toph's "lie detector" with a lie, even though toph knew she was lying.

that says a lot about who azula is and what her personality is like.

[The MunchKING]

I mean...those were her parents being screwed over by a screwed up justice system. She handled that whole situation with a lot more tact than I would have if I was in her position. She only threatened to feed that judge to Naga XD

Not that bit, the bit before that where she jumped up in court and was like "if you kill them I'll kill YOU and every one you love! WRATH OF THE AVATAR Style!"

1) The judge was completely corrupt and in the pocket of the world-destroying villain.

But did she even KNOW that at the time?

2) Her parents were not actually guilty, didn't get to even speak during the 'trial'.

I thought her dad was like "I totally went to that 'Let's overthrow the guy from the Northern Tribe' meeting, but we didn't actually do anything about it yet" to her. But I admit it's been a while since I watched it...

3) She was an immature teenager at the time.

So was Azula. Being a Teen doesn't get you an exemption from being held accountable for your actions.

4) It turned out that this was actually the correct course of action here.

It was certainly A course of action... and it worked out for her in the end. Aang would have totally gone about it more diplomatically.

Like Suyin's "go forth and murderise Kuvira and her army".

Kyoshi would have done it.

Like Tenzin's "just ignore this evil spirit stuff for now and go visit the four Air Nomad temples (which would have been futile).
Like "Tonraq's "don't do anything rash" while that was exactly what was called for.

That it worked doesn't mean that it was the only option.

Also how superheroes think. Also what her mentors tell her to do.
Korra: "What if Unalaq was right when he said the Avatar shouldn't be a bridge between the two worlds? What if Avatar Wan made a mistake when he closed the portals? What if humans and spirits weren't meant to live apart? Well, what do you think I should do?"
Tenzin: "I think you should trust your instincts. There is nothing else I can teach you. You are the Avatar. Whatever your decision, I support you."

Well ultimately SOMEONE's got to make the call.

to note, azula was so use to lying that she was able to fool toph's "lie detector" with a lie, even though toph knew she was lying.

that says a lot about who azula is and what her personality is like.

Well the other thing is she had nothing to LOSE by telling them such a ridiculous lie. They weren't going to punish her for claiming to be a 30 foot tall purple platypus bear. And Mythbusters said that a polygraph needs you to have some fear of repercussions to catch you.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Here's a summary of the fun stuff Azula's been up to in the comic continuation of A:TLA.

The Search: She's convinced to team up with team Avatar to look for her and Zuko's mom. During this search she assaults everybody at least once and basically plans to murder Ursa because she's convinced that's how she'll regain her sanity. She shows now regard for innocent people that happen to be in her way, including her young half sister. Granted, this is Azula at her most uncontrollably crazy, but at the end of the day she's only thinking of how to make herself feel better and is more than willing to kill innocent people to get her way.

Smoke and Shadow: This is where things get real fun with Azula. She's relatively sane again, as in she's fully in control of herself and able to make all kinds of schemes and stuff, so all her horrible actions. She gets a group of warriors to join her in pretending to be spirits that kidnapp children from their homes and keep them prisoner so that Mai's father has reason to start a militia and attempt to incite an revolt against Zuko's rule as the fire lord.

And the reason she's doing this. She wants to help Zuko become a better fire lord by forcing him into situations where he'll have to exert his authority in ways that'll scare the people into following his rule. Basically, she wants to turn him into a new Ozai. Because that's how she thinks a fire lord should act.

Korra may be a jerk at times or a stupid teenager, but she's always got her heart in the right place and tries to do what is right. Azula is insane, ruthless, only really cares about herself and constantly tries to force her world view onto others.

[Len Ikari145]

Here's a summary of the fun stuff Azula's been up to in the comic continuation of A:TLA.

The Search: She's convinced to team up with team Avatar to look for her and Zuko's mom. During this search she assaults everybody at least once and basically plans to murder Ursa because she's convinced that's how she'll regain her sanity. She shows now regard for innocent people that happen to be in her way, including her young half sister. Granted, this is Azula at her most uncontrollably crazy, but at the end of the day she's only thinking of how to make herself feel better and is more than willing to kill innocent people to get her way.

Smoke and Shadow: This is where things get real fun with Azula. She's relatively sane again, as in she's fully in control of herself and able to make all kinds of schemes and stuff, so all her horrible actions. She gets a group of warriors to join her in pretending to be spirits that kidnapp children from their homes and keep them prisoner so that Mai's father has reason to start a militia and attempt to incite an revolt against Zuko's rule as the fire lord.

And the reason she's doing this. She wants to help Zuko become a better fire lord by forcing him into situations where he'll have to exert his authority in ways that'll scare the people into following his rule. Basically, she wants to turn him into a new Ozai. Because that's how she thinks a fire lord should act.

Korra may be a jerk at times or a stupid teenager, but she's always got her heart in the right place and tries to do what is right. Azula is insane, ruthless, only really cares about herself and constantly tries to force her world view onto others.

Amen. This is like comparing Peter Parker to bloody Frieza.

[BitVyper]

Are we actually trying to draw a moral equivalence between Korra, who makes some mistakes and does her best to make a better world while bearing the enormous weight of the Avatar, and Azula, who literally can't play a friendly game of beach volleyball without deconstructing someone, throwing a small explosive at the other team, and burning down the net so that no one else can play? Who maliciously betrays everyone that ever tried to help her, whines when it happens to her, treats her immediate subjects with malice and sadism just because she's having a bad day, shoots lightning at a bystander, and revels her ability to commit atrocity? Probably the only reason we don't see her outright torture people is because it's a show for children. Like at this point we might as well say Aang is as bad as Azula because he capsizes an airship without knowing whether or not there are still people on it, and puts his own spiritual growth before the fate of the world. I mean he made a deliberate choice to essentially throw the fight rather than hit Ozai with his own lightning, and he didn't know he was going to get the Avatar state back. His sin is just easier to ignore because it's indolence, but indolence kills.

But like these characters dealing with those problems is the moral conflict their respective shows are centred around. Korra didn't get morally simple villains because it wouldn't challenge who she is. Aang did, because the challenge he was facing was ultimately not really about Ozai, but balancing his soul against the world. They struggle, but that doesn't make them equal to Azula. If Azula was the Avatar, she'd declare herself Godqueen in the second week and start demanding human sacrifices.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Are we actually trying to draw a moral equivalence between Korra, who makes some mistakes and does her best to make a better world while bearing the enormous weight of the Avatar, and Azula, who literally can't play a friendly game of beach volleyball without deconstructing someone, throwing a small explosive at the other team, and burning down the net so that no one else can play? Who maliciously betrays everyone that ever tried to help her, whines when it happens to her, treats her immediate subjects with malice and sadism just because she's having a bad day, shoots lightning at a bystander, and revels her ability to commit atrocity? Probably the only reason we don't see her outright torture people is because it's a show for children. Like at this point we might as well say Aang is as bad as Azula because he capsizes an airship without knowing whether or not there are still people on it, and puts his own spiritual growth before the fate of the world. I mean he made a deliberate choice to essentially throw the fight rather than hit Ozai with his own lightning, and he didn't know he was going to get the Avatar state back. His sin is just easier to ignore because it's indolence, but indolence kills.

But like these characters dealing with those problems is the moral conflict their respective shows are centred around. Korra didn't get morally simple villains because it wouldn't challenge who she is. Aang did, because the challenge he was facing was ultimately not really about Ozai, but balancing his soul against the world. They struggle, but that doesn't make them equal to Azula. If Azula was the Avatar, she'd declare herself Godqueen in the second week and start demanding human sacrifices.

Somebody compared them, and most everybody else has jumped to Korra's defence.

And part of me now wants to see just how horrible Azula would make things if she was the avatar. Like a dark comedy short that shows what Azula would be like after gaining full master over all four elements.