Sell Me on Hal Jordan's character

[Ascended]

So, I've been reading Green Lantern comics since the early 90's. I discovered the property when Coast City got blown up, and my first GL issue was #50, when Hal destroyed the Corps and Kyle took over. And I've been a fan ever since.

I love these guys. John, Guy, Kyle.....even Simon and Jessica are alright. I love a lot of the villains, and Sinestro is easily on my Top 10 list of favorite villains in any medium. But I've never liked Hal. And I'm wondering what it is that I'm missing. I read, and mostly enjoyed, Johns' run as well as some older pre-Crisis stuff. In both cases, Hal strikes me as a bland, two dimensional character who happens to have the good fortune of being in excellent stories. But as a character unto himself he leaves me cold. And I know there's gotta be something that I'm missing. I think Johns once said that all the things that make Hal a great Lantern are the same things that make him a crappy person, and that's a fascinating lens to look at the character through. But still, I can't find anything about Hal as a character that I find interesting.

Back in the Hard Traveling days, Hal seems (from my limited exposure) to be the kind of well-intentioned-yet-ultimately-ignorant, conservative leaning guy that was mostly there so Ollie could explain to Hal why he was wrong. He struck me largely as that middle-management guy who dates women half his age and rides a motorcycle in a desperate attempt to hide how boring he is and how he's trapped in a dead-end job with bosses who hate him.

In the modern era, Hal's a clear-cut Maverick archetype. He's got a problem with authority, rules, confines of any possible kind and he prefers to fly in blind than to actually think about stuff......and usually I enjoy characters like that. Han Solo, Kirk, that dude from Firefly, etc. But with Hal......it often feels like he's just a huge idiot who can barely function as an adult. He doesn't strike me as a free spirit as much as someone trying to avoid being accountable for his own actions.

Maybe part of this is just a leftover bias from the Hal-Kyle flamewars of the old DCMB. Maybe its the fact that I always found Hal far more interesting as a sympathetic villain than as a hero and part of me resents his return to a black hat/white hat superhero morality.

So tell me guys, what is it about Hal that I'm missing? What are the character traits and personality quirks that make Hal a fully realized character who is entertaining, if not likable? I don't have to like Hal to be entertained by him, I just haven't yet figured out what it is about him that's entertaining in the first place.

I know topics like this can still be a difficult subject. I'm not interested in hearing about why one character is better than the other. I'm after Hal as a character and where the appeal to that lies, not in whether he's cooler or better than someone else. Many thanks in advance for helping a guy out!

[BohemiaDrinker]

You're not missing anything. Your perceptions are pretty much spot on, except for when Jordan is even worse. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not all characters are for everybody, it's ok.

[Assam]

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. As both a sympathetic villain and as the Spectre I found him really interesting, but as just Green Lantern Hal Jordan, he's pretty boring.

[Lightning Rider]

I can't say that he's in my favorites but I always liked him at least as much as the other lanterns.

The appeal essentially boils down to two things. The first is that between Emerald Dawn, Johns's run, and Waid's "Brave and the Bold", I was really sold on feeling sympathetic for a guy who was so detached from healthy human relationships that he barely valued his own life. He was an extremely lonely fuck up who never really hurt anyone else out of his lack of discipline and direction. And that makes his friendships even more special. When he's with Barry, Barry is the one always picking up after him (in his personal life) and making him look comparatively disorderly while Hal tries to get Barry to open up more. By contrast, Hal is often the voice of reason when Ollie is going through a tumultuous time because he can relate to running away from problems and feelings. This feeds into his role as GL in so many ways. It gives him structure and a sense of responsibility and allows that fearlessness to have a purpose and be constructive, rather than self-destructive.

Which ties into my next point. As a GL they all have extremely admirable qualities and a ton of willpower, but I'll always see Hal as that guy you want in the tightest spot doing the impossible when you need him to. If anyone can get it done, it's him. He makes it happen through sheer grit and determination. He's the best and he knows it. People don't often like sports figures and other accomplished people being cocky, but I find it charming when it's someone with a good heart who is willing to walk the walk, and sacrifice themselves for other people on top of that. We all love a good underdog (which he still is in some ways personally) but it's no crime to be confident and I admire the way he knows what he can do.

In a way he's almost like an endearing Marvel-type character in his personal life while retaining the traditional grandiosity of DC through his sci-fi space adventures. Of all the "charming asshole" archetypes I've seen in comics, Hal is probably the most heroic and unapologetic. Being able to be both the rigid space cop and the bold rebel maverick depending on the context makes him a strong personality.

Don't know if that resonates at all but I gave it a shot.

[Ascended]

In a way he's almost like an endearing Marvel-type character in his personal life while retaining the traditional grandiosity of DC through his sci-fi space adventures. Of all the "charming asshole" archetypes I've seen in comics, Hal is probably the most heroic and unapologetic. Being able to be both the rigid space cop and the bold rebel maverick depending on the context makes him a strong personality.

Don't know if that resonates at all but I gave it a shot.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to get, actually. Thanks! As Bohemia said, not all characters are for everybody and I suspect that Hal simply isn't for me. But I wanted to see if his fans had any insight I hadn't considered. Even if I don't change my opinion on Hal, I'd at least like to understand him.

[Trey Strain]

I don't like the thing of Jordan's acting first and thinking later, which got beaten to death through overuse. But the real problem with him is the way DC has used him. He is just not a big enough star to build a franchise around, and that's what DC has tried to do. Someone at DC thought Hal was so popular that Kyle, John and Guy could become satellites orbiting him. Then they took it a step further and added two more satellites, Baz and Cruz, because diversity!

Wow, what a mess, and now you've got two GL comics that are about to dip below 30K in sales. I think the sales of Green Lanterns are being puffed a bit through no-cost returns for the shop owners, and that it's already well below 30K.

In retrospect, a better plan would have been to put Hal on Earth in one comic, Guy in space in another, Kyle in Titans and John in JLA. Nobody needs to be designated as "the greatest." Just put them all out there and let readers decide who they like. If you tell the readers that one is better, then of course the others won't be able to sell a comic. Duh!

That could have worked. It still could work, if they'd find non-Lantern roles in the DCU for Baz and Cruz. They're the fifth and sixth wheels on the car.

I think I could sell you on Jordan's character in that capacity. But I don't think I can sell you on him as the star of stars among six -- count 'em, SIX! -- Earth Lanterns. And I damned sure couldn't sell you on the other Lanterns by telling you that Hal is the one who matters, could I? What an awful idea that was...

[Lightning Rider]

These scans are equally as likely to make you hate him lol. I tried to hunt down some more touching Hal-centric ones but they're not as easy to find. These support my 2nd point in the earlier post.

[Ascended]

These scans are equally as likely to make you hate him lol. I tried to hunt down some more touching Hal-centric ones but they're not as easy to find. These support my 2nd point in the earlier post.

Lol, its not the confidence that I take issue with. I actually enjoy that "unapologetic asshole" type of thing. Hal just doesn't seem to have the depth to make it acceptable.

So....what about some more detailed traits? It's the little things that really hook me on a character.

From Emerald Dawn its implied he's got a minor drinking problem. From Hard Traveling he's right-leaning but largely seems apolitical. Womanizer. Huge problem with commitment, but fiercely loyal to a cause. Headstrong. Confident beyond the point of recklessness. Honestly, this is largely all just standard "pilot" stuff.....

I feel like these are all pretty broad stroke traits. Does anyone have any deeper insights into his psyche?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

There’s really not much to explain. He’s a man of action. But when well-written, he’s also honorable, no-nonsense, and totally awesome. He’s a guy you can live vicariously through, but who isn’t completely unrelatable. Think a more mature Johnny Storm. He’s basically based on Chuck Yeager and meant to be a space cop daredevil who can be adventurous, yet duty bound. He chaffes against the authority that constrains him, but still respects the Corps and loves being a Lantern.

[Frontier]

This about sums it up for me:

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You don't need to like Hal Jordan anymore than I need to like Batman, whose comics generally leave me indifferent to him (but has also been the star of some great comics). The character either works for you or he doesn't.

There's also the distinct possibility, as you acknowledged, that your initial exposure to the character has prejudiced your opinion of him. A lot of comic fans can't see characters as anything else but what they were when they were first exposed to them. For some, their first exposure to Hal Jordan was as Parallax, so they are unable to see him as anything other than a sympathetic villain. For others, he's the older, wiser, veteran Hal Jordan was portrayed as during the early 90s. Others are stuck thinking of him as Ollie's well-meaning but wrong-headed conservative punching bag.

For me, my first exposure to Hal Jordan was during the 1980s, when he was exiled to space, fought his way back home again, and gave up his ring for Carol, who was then stalked by the mysterious Predator, prompting Hal to strap on a jet pack and take him on, only to watch helplessly as Carol was transformed into Star Sapphire. This is the character I fell in love with, who was reckless, but noble. Hal Jordan was a man torn between doing right by the world, the cosmos, those closest to him and himself. He was a guy who made giant mistakes, but never gave up or stopped trying to do the right thing.

The further back you go, it's pretty clear Hal Jordan was cut from the same cloth as Captain Kirk, which is what Geoff Johns was obviously going for when he revamped the character during GL: Rebirth. The similarities between Johns's Hal Jordan and JJ Abrams' revamped Kirk are undeniable.

If you like Captain Kirk, whether he's William Shatner or Chris Pine, that's pretty much who Hal Jordan is, but with a power ring. If that appeals to you, then you'll like Hal Jordan. If you don't, there's no harm in that.

Like with most characters, he's suffered some terrible stories, some middling ones and some great ones.

[Lightning Rider]

Lol, its not the confidence that I take issue with. I actually enjoy that "unapologetic asshole" type of thing. Hal just doesn't seem to have the depth to make it acceptable.

So....what about some more detailed traits? It's the little things that really hook me on a character.

From Emerald Dawn its implied he's got a minor drinking problem. From Hard Traveling he's right-leaning but largely seems apolitical. Womanizer. Huge problem with commitment, but fiercely loyal to a cause. Headstrong. Confident beyond the point of recklessness. Honestly, this is largely all just standard "pilot" stuff.....

I feel like these are all pretty broad stroke traits. Does anyone have any deeper insights into his psyche?

I think that's where his interactions with Barry and Ollie in other mediums really pay off. Have you read "the trial of Oliver Queen?" His moment in that run is pretty perfect.

In terms of deeper insights to his psyche, I know not everyone loves the retcon of his father being killed in front of him, but I think idolizing someone so brave who died so tragically, combined with not having a functional relationship with your surviving family, definitely gave Hal a sense of "seeking a good death". Not really suicidal, but kind of okay with the fact that if he dies doing something brave, that's alright. One of my best friends had his father die young of cancer and he grew distant from his surviving family. He was seriously considering becoming a war-zone journalist, perhaps because he didn't feel, at the time, that it would be much of a loss to anyone else. I just find that kind of nuanced reckless abandon interesting and unique. It's easily mistaken for more stereotypical self-hating or guilt-ridden self-destructive reckless behavior, but there's just something that speaks to me about someone so detached and lonely that they don't think anyone will miss them if they die, and the freedom from fear that provides. My own death scares me enough but it's definitely compounded by how much it would hurt my loved ones. (Which makes Zero Hour and Parallax Hal that much more interesting when you think on it and break it down.)

As for finer more subtle strokes to his personality, I suppose there aren't many. He likes Pink Floyd? If you want him feeling more like a flesh-and-blood person I'd say Waid's Brave and the Bold is as good a place as any. I could elaborate but it's not the same as reading the panels yourself.

[Frontier]

The further back you go, it's pretty clear Hal Jordan was cut from the same cloth as Captain Kirk, which is what Geoff Johns was obviously going for when he revamped the character during GL: Rebirth. The similarities between Johns's Hal Jordan and JJ Abrams' revamped Kirk are undeniable.

Particularly when IDW had them team-up .

I think that's where his interactions with Barry and Ollie in other mediums really pay off. Have you read "the trial of Oliver Queen?" His moment in that run is pretty perfect.

In terms of deeper insights to his psyche, I know not everyone loves the retcon of his father being killed in front of him, but I think idolizing someone so brave who died so tragically, combined with not having a functional relationship with your surviving family, definitely gave Hal a sense of "seeking a good death". Not really suicidal, but kind of okay with the fact that if he dies doing something brave, that's alright. One of my best friends had his father die young of cancer and he grew distant from his surviving family. He was seriously considering becoming a war-zone journalist, perhaps because he didn't feel, at the time, that it would be much of a loss to anyone else. I just find that kind of nuanced reckless abandon interesting and unique. It's easily mistaken for more stereotypical self-hating or guilt-ridden self-destructive reckless behavior, but there's just something that speaks to me about someone so detached and lonely that they don't think anyone will miss them if they die, and the freedom from fear that provides. My own death scares me enough but it's definitely compounded by how much it would hurt my loved ones. (Which makes Zero Hour and Parallax Hal that much more interesting when you think on it and break it down.)

As for finer more subtle strokes to his personality, I suppose there aren't many. He likes Pink Floyd? If you want him feeling more like a flesh-and-blood person I'd say Waid's Brave and the Bold is as good a place as any. I could elaborate but it's not the same as reading the panels yourself.

I think you could even see some of that in New Frontier Hal, after he killed that soldier after the war ended.

[Lightning Rider]

Particularly when IDW had them team-up .

I think you could even see some of that in New Frontier Hal, after he killed that soldier after the war ended.

Another great example, Hal is pretty well-served by New Frontier if I remember right looking back on it. That one's due for a re-read.

[Ascended]

As for finer more subtle strokes to his personality, I suppose there aren't many. He likes Pink Floyd? If you want him feeling more like a flesh-and-blood person I'd say Waid's Brave and the Bold is as good a place as any. I could elaborate but it's not the same as reading the panels yourself.

Actually, that does help me understand him a little more.

I think the idea of Hal not really caring if he dies.....that's a hook I could work with. I can see how that informs his other actions. And at least he has good taste in music, apparently.

To me, Hal's always felt like the skeleton of a character; he has a bunch of various, basic personality traits hung on him, but not enough "meat on the bone" for him to feel like anything more than a thin archetype. And that's not a character, its a concept, you know? I think that's what has prevented me from really getting a firm grip on him. The other Mavericks that I've mentioned, like Kirk, have more nuance. Kirk wears reading glasses even though there is commonplace technology that could fix his eyes. He has hobbies and collects old books and climbs mountains. Hal doesn't have little things like that, or rather, I don't know of them if they exist. And it's those little things that makes a character come alive in my mind.

I dont need to like Hal, I just want to understand him. And you guys are helping. Again, many thanks to all.

There's also the distinct possibility, as you acknowledged, that your initial exposure to the character has prejudiced your opinion of him.

Its very true.

When Parallax first debuted, I didn't know much about Hal at all, but I knew he was a founding Leaguer and a big name hero; one of the best of the best. And I found the threat of that extremely appealing. Here's a guy who knows all the details; he knows where you live and work, who you love, how you think, how you fight, what your powers are capable of, what they're not, he knows the secret handshakes and the location of the secret headquarters......the betrayal of that, and the inside information Hal had, made him a very scary villain in my mind. And his motivation was very understandable and, in some ways, even noble, which just made the whole Zero Hour thing more gut-wrenching.

To my mind, he's never been that interesting since. But yes, this could just be a bias based on what he was doing when I first discovered him. I try not to let that sort of thing cloud my judgement any more than it must (everyone has a bias after all) and I try to be aware of my biases as well. But at this point, Kyle hasn't been a favorite Lantern, or even a favorite character, in years, and I don't really have any beef with Hal at all. I just find him bland. So now I'm trying to come at him as if I had just been assigned to write his book; who the hell is this guy, and how do I find an "in" so I can understand him and his appeal?