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  1. #16
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    Cale's only problem, though it is a massive one, is that she is Rucka's pet-character and no one else seems to be the slightest bit interested in writing her.
    And tbh I can see why, because Cale is stuck in the world where she has to compete for villainy-space with actual gods, mythological monsters and cheesy pulp-villains... she just ends up looking like the most boring character of the lot. Especially so because Cale does Luthor better than Luthor, and never actually looses her mind to the degree where she dons a suit of armor and actually tries to take Diana on in a fight.
    Now I can see Cale's potential, because she really could be Diana's Luthor, but the problem with her trying to be that is that she's up against far older, more established and more colourful villains. While Luthor started off a bit zany and evolved into his current form over the decades, Cale just arrived like that.

    But how do you give her the prominence her potential has? Writers just need to continue to use her, but if only Rucka wants to... I dont think she will escape limbo.

  2. #17
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    There is no Veronica Cale.

    Veronica Cale, as with Captain Wonder, is an elaborate bio-ectoplasmic construct, created and controlled by Wonder Woman's true archenemy, Doctor Psycho, who, after the most violent battle ever seen in comics, ..is revealed to be a woman.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    There is no Veronica Cale.

    Veronica Cale, as with Captain Wonder, is an elaborate bio-ectoplasmic construct, created and controlled by Wonder Woman's true archenemy, Doctor Psycho, who, after the most violent battle ever seen in comics, ..is revealed to be a woman.
    What? Diana punches Psycho so hard his gender swaps?
    Sounds pretty golden-age...

  4. #19
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    What? Diana punches Psycho so hard his gender swaps?
    Sounds pretty golden-age...
    It's pretty sad to think Veronica Cale is so generic that the only way to make her interesting might be to make her an ugly, little man, who's revealed ..to be an uglier, little woman.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 12-06-2017 at 09:27 AM.
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  5. #20
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    Would compositing her with Eviless work? I can't say that I am well versed in Wonder Woman's villains, but I'm thinking that being the strategic leader of a group like Villainy Inc. would suit Veronica's more hands off approach. Heck if they wanted to make the characters of Eviless and Veronica Cale one in the same, Eviless would simply be a moniker fitting to the whole "Villainy" aspect of the name of the super villain group. (As in Veronica won't go by her actual name while participating with the lot of female criminals, but by a title... like a crime boss in a way.)

  6. #21
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Would compositing her with Eviless work? I can't say that I am well versed in Wonder Woman's villains, but I'm thinking that being the strategic leader of a group like Villainy Inc. would suit Veronica's more hands off approach. Heck if they wanted to make the characters of Eviless and Veronica Cale one in the same, Eviless would simply be a moniker fitting to the whole "Villainy" aspect of the name of the super villain group. (As in Veronica won't go by her actual name while participating with the lot of female criminals, but by a title... like a crime boss in a way.)
    I've wondered how it might be to find out that Veronica Cale, her entire history and identity, has all been a disguise for Eviless or Queen C-L-E-A. Could it hurt, at this point? In spite of being very well-written, Cale is still so painfully dull and generic.

    An inability to smile, six fingers on one hand or hating the taste of fish...almost anything might help.
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  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Would compositing her with Eviless work? I can't say that I am well versed in Wonder Woman's villains, but I'm thinking that being the strategic leader of a group like Villainy Inc. would suit Veronica's more hands off approach. Heck if they wanted to make the characters of Eviless and Veronica Cale one in the same, Eviless would simply be a moniker fitting to the whole "Villainy" aspect of the name of the super villain group. (As in Veronica won't go by her actual name while participating with the lot of female criminals, but by a title... like a crime boss in a way.)
    Good idea. Would she still be a alien ? I mean it probabaly would have to be dropped. Maybe Saturna is her sister handling the other side of her business the shade side

  8. #23
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Good idea. Would she still be a alien ? I mean it probabaly would have to be dropped. Maybe Saturna is her sister handling the other side of her business the shade side
    Maybe, Veronica has an alternate personality. Maybe, she is Eviless Saturna, ..but doesn't know it. Lol

    What if the Saturna we saw in the Steve Trevor special was just a host for a really grotesque, mutant Saturnian woman - a mystic, who was about the size of an underdeveloped human fetus? What if she stole this mutant Saturnian, sleeping in a little, glass capsule at ARGUS, and ate her...swallowed her whole and gained superhuman abilities?! There's lots of ways you could bring Eviless back and stitch her story onto Veronica's.

    I don't think Veronica needs to be fixed, really, but, the sinister industrialist thing has been done to death, in comics. I would like to see a skilled writer give her something that made her more, than a female Luthor - something unique ..and maybe something mystical.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 12-06-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Would compositing her with Eviless work? I can't say that I am well versed in Wonder Woman's villains, but I'm thinking that being the strategic leader of a group like Villainy Inc. would suit Veronica's more hands off approach. Heck if they wanted to make the characters of Eviless and Veronica Cale one in the same, Eviless would simply be a moniker fitting to the whole "Villainy" aspect of the name of the super villain group. (As in Veronica won't go by her actual name while participating with the lot of female criminals, but by a title... like a crime boss in a way.)
    Leave Eviless alone!

    I want to see Eviless come back as an extraterrestrial despot/leader of a crime ring, who sets her sights on Earth and comes into conflict with Diana, and wholly separate from other Wonder characters.

    Cale could thrive as a human adversary, much like Luthor has, but someone has to want to invest in her as a character. As others stated, she's a Rucka character and I don't see anyone using her frequently. Unless someone similar to Johns comes in and rehabilitates Diana's Villainy Inc. members like he did for Flash's Rogues. Meaning they'd establish their relation to Diana and relationship to each other in a meaningful way.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    It might be interesting to have all Cale's associates undergo horrific transformations because of her, like Doctor Cyber. She could be responsible for the mutations of Mouse Man and Crimson Centipede or the metahuman accidents for the Fireworks Man and Inversion, the Inside-Out Man.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Would compositing her with Eviless work?
    Compositing never works. Unless you do it Cronenberg style with a faulty teleporter.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Compositing never works. Unless you do it Cronenberg style with a faulty teleporter.
    Or you just leave the body somewhere for long enough

    Anyways in case Cale lost her marbles one day and turned into a Batman-type villain then calling herself Eviless is as good a choice as any.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Well Eviless was interested in Earth for human trafficking. She could have a dominantrix type personality in that she wants whoever she takes to be broken. She is wants to break them into being submissive. That’s why she set her sights on Diana .

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I've had some pretty whackadoo ideas about mashing up characters like Donna Troy and Raven, Cheetah and Etta Candy, Cassandra Cain and Damian Wayne... but the logic of combining Eviless and Veronica Cale is way beyond my comprehension.

    I think Veronica Cale shouldn't a businesswoman, but an outspoken regressive political movement spokesperson, like Phyllis Schlafly. Not all Wonder Woman villains should be easily punched, nor easily described as criminal. She represents a dramatic cultural shift, and there should be a lot of people uncomfortable with change. Cale can profit from that sentiment.
    Last edited by CRaymond; 12-06-2017 at 01:55 PM.

  15. #30
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Leave Eviless alone!

    I want to see Eviless come back as an extraterrestrial despot/leader of a crime ring, who sets her sights on Earth and comes into conflict with Diana, and wholly separate from other Wonder characters.

    Cale could thrive as a human adversary, much like Luthor has, but someone has to want to invest in her as a character. As others stated, she's a Rucka character and I don't see anyone using her frequently. Unless someone similar to Johns comes in and rehabilitates Diana's Villainy Inc. members like he did for Flash's Rogues. Meaning they'd establish their relation to Diana and relationship to each other in a meaningful way.
    Good argument. I surrender.
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