Wonder Woman villain: how would you fix him/her: Veronica Cale

[The Dying Detective]

Yeah, I hope they dig more into her petty and superiority complex.

I love Lex but, like Batman, I get tired of him/them always being the smartest guys in the room. That's why I'm interested in seeing characters like Cale and Cheetah interact with him as equals in their own way. Instead of coming at him head on, they can come at him from behind, or above, or from the side and have a measure of intelligence, malevolence, and ingenuity that catches him off guard. It just makes things more interesting and more female villains deserve that stature.

Yup and I hope if Rucka returns tot he title he continues the way Robinson portrayed Cale because in my mind as I saw Cale continue to be villain I was wondering why are you still doing this? So it was amazing that Robinson fitted the loss of her daughter so nicely with her jealousy. Well there is also Mr. Terrific the other smartest man in the DC Universe he currently leads the Terrifics a team made of Metamorpho, Plastic Man, and Linnya the ancestress of Phantom Girl. Some are hoping for Mr. Terrific to have a bigger presence as well. Well in Post-Crisis Luthor, Cheetah, and the Joker were the leaders of the Injustice League Unlimited so at least she got to share some equality with some of the bigger villains. Though again Luthor did most of the planning. Smart villainesses are rare especially in Wodner Woman she has way too many villains that challenge her physically but not morally or intellectually. In fact I can see Diana feeling frustrated that evn though she could reveal the truth about Veronica Cale it won't do any good because she has some stronger than the Lasso of Truth money and brains.

[WonderScott]

Yup and I hope if Rucka returns tot he title he continues the way Robinson portrayed Cale because in my mind as I saw Cale continue to be villain I was wondering why are you still doing this? So it was amazing that Robinson fitted the loss of her daughter so nicely with her jealousy. Well there is also Mr. Terrific the other smartest man in the DC Universe he currently leads the Terrifics a team made of Metamorpho, Plastic Man, and Linnya the ancestress of Phantom Girl. Some are hoping for Mr. Terrific to have a bigger presence as well. Well in Post-Crisis Luthor, Cheetah, and the Joker were the leaders of the Injustice League Unlimited so at least she got to share some equality with some of the bigger villains. Though again Luthor did most of the planning. Smart villainesses are rare especially in Wodner Woman she has way too many villains that challenge her physically but not morally or intellectually. In fact I can see Diana feeling frustrated that evn though she could reveal the truth about Veronica Cale it won't do any good because she has some stronger than the Lasso of Truth money and brains.

Haha... I was just posting about McDuffie's Injustice League story in another thread.

It was a fun story and I liked the Cheetah, Luthor, and Joker triumvirate. Cheetah got a bit sidelined in it though. I wish that story had focused a bit more on the dynamics of those three characters...that would have been interesting.

I guess I just need to start pairing up some interesting villains together and write some titles.

[The Dying Detective]

Haha... I was just posting about McDuffie's Injustice League story in another thread.

It was a fun story and I liked the Cheetah, Luthor, and Joker triumvirate. Cheetah got a bit sidelined in it though. I wish that story had focused a bit more on the dynamics of those three characters...that would have been interesting.

I guess I just need to start pairing up some interesting villains together and write some titles.

Yeah I saw you post what a strange coincidence. I believe the defeat of the Injustice League was meant to only be temporary but they acted on that plot thread so you probably would have seen more of Luthor, Cheetah, and Joker had McDuffie been able to do it. And uh what exactly are you doing?

[AmiMizuno]

So what was good in Rucka’s first run with Cale and his second run with returning the character into Wonder Woman ?

[The Dying Detective]

So what was good in Rucka’s first run with Cale and his second run with returning the character into Wonder Woman ?

I don't know much about Rucka's first run with Cale but according to WonderScott she had more teeth back then. But I can say that she had less teeth in his second use of her because she was just too sympathetic.

[WonderScott]

Yeah I saw you post what a strange coincidence. I believe the defeat of the Injustice League was meant to only be temporary but they acted on that plot thread so you probably would have seen more of Luthor, Cheetah, and Joker had McDuffie been able to do it. And uh what exactly are you doing?

Dreaming up wild villain pairings and plots to take over the DCU.

I've been doing a good bit of witch and sorceress research in the DCU lately.

[WonderScott]

So what was good in Rucka’s first run with Cale and his second run with returning the character into Wonder Woman ?

TL;DR - In Rucka's first run she offensively gave as good as she got to human, metahuman, and god adversaries alike. In his second run she's more sympathetic, due to the status of her daughter and getting caught up in the machinations of the gods, and seems more reactionary than proactive. (To me.) (Nothing wrong with either of those depictions, depending on how you like your villains.)

She was much less sympathetic and definitely a bit more offensively malevolent in Rucka's first run. (To me.)

What humanized her in the first run was her relationship with Leslie Anderson, who was cofounder of Cale/Anderson Pharmaceuticals with her. IIRC, Leslie and Veronica had a longstanding friendship that started to diverge into a state of uncomfortableness the closer Veronica got to taking Diana down and besmirching her role in the world. Their relationship continued to deteriorate as Cale went down her path and Leslie got closer to Diana's friends, like Ferdinand.

Cale in the first run was pretty unscrupulous and unafraid too. Teaming up with Doctor Psycho and Circe at different points and attempting to manipulate them. (Suffice it to say, those plans didn't all work out for her and she suffered too.)

Leslie and all of that got dropped when she was used as the leader of a team of mad scientists on Oolong Island in a Final Crisis miniseries, IIRC. She really didn't seem like the same character (to me.)

Then the DCnU happened and we didn't see Veronica until Rucka's return to the title.

I'm pleased with Robinson's motives for her and her attitude. She seems a little more formidable with this agency, even in just that brief scene we've seen so far.

Her daughter being on Themyscira is kinda, sorta, ish a throwback to Rucka's first run where Circe wanted to manipulate Veronica to use the government to adopt Circe and Ares's daughter, Lyta, from the Amazons. They were playing up that the Amazons were holding Lyta illegally and Circe wanted her back and Circe and Veronica wanted to use her "captivity" to hurt Wonder Woman the Amazons's reputation.

[The Dying Detective]

Dreaming up wild villain pairings and plots to take over the DCU.

I've been doing a good bit of witch and sorceress research in the DCU lately.

Wow you remind me of my friend Nightdreamer she crafted her own universe made of a lot of things Marvel, DC, My Little Pony, the list goes on. What sort of villain pairing have you made?

[WonderScott]

The version of Luthor that Cale vaguely resembled had pretty much stopped existing by the time she was created. She has more in common with David Xanatos than Luthor honestly.

I can see that (and I'm always up for a Gargoyles reference.)

[WonderScott]

Wow you remind me of my friend Nightdreamer she crafted her own universe made of a lot of things Marvel, DC, My Little Pony, the list goes on. What sort of villain pairing have you made?

Sounds like Nightdreamer is having fun.

A few things have been knocking around inside my head besides Wonder Woman.

1. An Earth 3 or Crime Syndicate title post-Doomsday Clock. Essentially a reborn Earth 3 where evil wins quite often (but not always) due to the combined might of the CSA and their "allies"/crime families. Their crime families are just starting to form with alliances, betrayals, power grabs, romances, and subterfuge taking place, while at the same time Earth 3 is beginning to see the rise of resistance fighter "heroes" to challenge the CSA.

2. A Secret Society of Super-Villains title operating on Prime Earth. Emphasis on "secrets" in this one. Not all the villains know who they are working for all the time and the cabal of leaders is actually quite small...or is it. Are the leaders the ruling echelon of the organization with all the secrets and lies happening? Or are they getting played by one of their own for something bigger...or by someone bigger? Hmmm...

3. The witch and sorceress research plays off an idea I have for bringing together some of the wizardesses on Prime Earth and defining the types and sources of magic available in the DCU. For the latter, if not all magic in the universe is the same, then showing who can access which type of magic in the universe is what I want to explore. Can anyone do it from practice/study? Can magical objects be imbued with power from any source of magic? Do divine/demonic magical sources operate differently than those from natural sources? What are the differences between being a Homo magi, another innately magical species, or a god or demigod that uses magic, etc.?

I haven't set up all my classifications yet, but it's what I want to explore.

4. This isn't necessarily primarily about villains, but it's a new take on the Outsiders starring some of the more monstrous and marginalized characters in the DCU.

This all is keeping me fairly busy as I play with the characters, adversaries, and characterizations, while dreaming up the plots and stories and character designs for any new characters. It's the stuff I turn to when I'm not thinking about potential Wonder stories and characters.

[The Dying Detective]

Sounds like Nightdreamer is having fun.

A few things have been knocking around inside my head besides Wonder Woman.

1. An Earth 3 or Crime Syndicate title post-Doomsday Clock. Essentially a reborn Earth 3 where evil wins quite often (but not always) due to the combined might of the CSA and their "allies"/crime families. Their crime families are just starting to form with alliances, betrayals, power grabs, romances, and subterfuge taking place, while at the same time Earth 3 is beginning to see the rise of resistance fighter "heroes" to challenge the CSA.

2. A Secret Society of Super-Villains title operating on Prime Earth. Emphasis on "secrets" in this one. Not all the villains know who they are working for all the time and the cabal of leaders is actually quite small...or is it. Are the leaders the ruling echelon of the organization with all the secrets and lies happening? Or are they getting played by one of their own for something bigger...or by someone bigger? Hmmm...

3. The witch and sorceress research plays off an idea I have for bringing together some of the wizardesses on Prime Earth and defining the types and sources of magic available in the DCU. For the latter, if not all magic in the universe is the same, then showing who can access which type of magic in the universe is what I want to explore. Can anyone do it from practice/study? Can magical objects be imbued with power from any source of magic? Do divine/demonic magical sources operate differently than those from natural sources? What are the differences between being a Homo magi, another innately magical species, or a god or demigod that uses magic, etc.?

I haven't set up all my classifications yet, but it's what I want to explore.

4. This isn't necessarily primarily about villains, but it's a new take on the Outsiders starring some of the more monstrous and marginalized characters in the DCU.

This all is keeping me fairly busy as I play with the characters, adversaries, and characterizations, while dreaming up the plots and stories and character designs for any new characters. It's the stuff I turn to when I'm not thinking about potential Wonder stories and characters.

Oh she is and she's fond of weird and complicated stuff.And wow this si some set up you've got how long have you been working on these? You're making you own DC Multiverse. And this si all completely based on Rebirth? Whose on the Secret Society of SUper Villains?

[Mel Dyer]

I'd just like to see Cale differentiate herself from Luthor in some obvious way - maybe, a visual way; not sure. I'm not sure how a writer could go about it, but wish one would try.

[LordUltimus]

I'd just like to see Cale differentiate herself from Luthor in some obvious way - maybe, a visual way; not sure. I'm not sure how a writer could go about it, but wish one would try.

Luthor doesn't really have any interest in magic. Maybe Cale could have some sort of magic amulet or something?

[Mel Dyer]

Luthor doesn't really have any interest in magic. Maybe Cale could have some sort of magic amulet or something?

I like that idea. Very, very much.

I'd like it even better, if her amulet actually had a single, finite function - made her intangible as a ghost or invulnerable to harm, somehow. She doesn't have to be all powerful, and I don't even imagine her liking magic, very much. Don't want to turn her into Circe, either, ..but, I don't think Veronica would turn down a magic that offered some measure of protection, against Wonder Woman.

That'd be so simple to incorporate into the mythos - wouldn't change the character, at all. She'd still be Cale, generic billionaire industrialist. I wish some writer would do that.

[Mutant God]

Luthor doesn't really have any interest in magic. Maybe Cale could have some sort of magic amulet or something?

I would have go the other way and have a hatred for magic, believing in these "fairy tales" and in Gods/Goddesses is stopping humanity from developing better technology and using logic.