Wonder Woman villain: how would you fix him/her: Veronica Cale

[Mel Dyer]

I need to think about it a little more, but there's some reason I'm reticent about merging Cale with another villain even though she's very Luthoress. Something's holding me back...Part of me wants to see Cale stay mundane (despite the fact Luthor doesn't) and see if someone can't twist the mad scientist business tycoon trope on its ear a bit. It'd be nice to have a woman next to Lex Luthor and Lucius Fox wheeling and dealing for contracts and in the tech race in the DCU.

Merging Cale with an established, though somewhat obscure supervillain is sort of lazy storytelling, anyway. Ideally, Cale should rise or fall on her own merit and how popular she is with WW comic fans. I think adding a twist to her rather generic condition is a more conservative course, in some respects, because merging two less-than-beloved might ultimately waste TWO characters.

Considering its present lack of simple things, like a regular supporting cast, and I think the WW can afford to waste much of anything.

[Agent Z]

Veronica Cale's reasons for hating Wonder Woman are almost identical to Luthor's rationale for his hatred and persecution of Superman; so, the she-Luthor thing isn't so far-fetched. Rucka even confirmed, in one of his interviews, that Cale was WW's answer to Luthor, but, I think she could be more. Merging her with Doctor Cyber or Queen Clea could only have made her less of a Luthor clone, and made Cyber less of a scarred-beauty-gone-wrong cliché - the victim thing, you mentioned - that I was a little surprised ..he didn't merge them, in his last run.

It seemed that Rucka had the building blocks for that on the table.

That version of Luthor had pretty much ceased to exist by the time Cale showed up. Luthor was motivated more by xenophobia of aliens than jealousy.

[Agent Z]

Merging Cale with an established, though somewhat obscure supervillain is sort of lazy storytelling, anyway. Ideally, Cale should rise or fall on her own merit and how popular she is with WW comic fans. I think adding a twist to her rather generic condition is a more conservative course, in some respects, because merging two less-than-beloved might ultimately waste TWO characters.

Considering its present lack of simple things, like a regular supporting cast, and I think the WW can afford to waste much of anything.

Then why have you been arguing for her to be merged with Dr Cyber?

[WonderScott]

Merging Cale with an established, though somewhat obscure supervillain is sort of lazy storytelling, anyway. Ideally, Cale should rise or fall on her own merit and how popular she is with WW comic fans. I think adding a twist to her rather generic condition is a more conservative course, in some respects, because merging two less-than-beloved might ultimately waste TWO characters.

Considering its present lack of simple things, like a regular supporting cast, and I think the WW can afford to waste much of anything.

Pretty much what I'm thinking.

We've only got like Steve and... Jason <shudder> appearing regularly right now.

I miss Etta and ARGUS.

[WonderScott]

Then why have you been arguing for her to be merged with Dr Cyber?

Mel's just thinking through ideas?

He's brought up and tossed out several throughout this discussion.

[The Dying Detective]

Pretty much what I'm thinking.

We've only got like Steve and... Jason <shudder> appearing regularly right now.

I miss Etta and ARGUS.

Technically A.R.G.U.S. is in on the action in the current story especially since the Oddfellows are a group that works for them. Etta currently has no role because she is now higher ranked than Steve so don't expect her to fight or go out into the field much.

[WonderScott]

That version of Luthor had pretty much ceased to exist by the time Cale showed up. Luthor was motivated more by xenophobia of aliens than jealousy.

Definitely true as part of his characterization, but the man vs superman theme constantly seems right below the surface with the Earth Prime Luthor at least.

My recollection of Cale's vibe in Rucka's first run was of the rags-to-riches, pulled-myself-up-by-my-own-bootstraps self-made woman who wasn't about to be outshined by an impossible demigoddess. She just doesn't have the benefit of decades of stories that can be read into about the character, adding nuance and retroactive meaning, because she simply didn't exist. She doesn't get the weight of that longevity.

It makes me wish we had more Wonder titles. :: prays to Athena :: So, we could have more main plots and subplots running at the same time for the benefit of building up the Wonder costumed villains, mythos, and concepts.

[WonderScott]

Technically A.R.G.U.S. is in on the action in the current story especially since the Oddfellows are a group that works for them. Etta currently has no role because she is now higher ranked than Steve so don't expect her to fight or go out into the field much.

Yeah, I thought about mentioning the Oddfellows, but they're not getting a lot of characterization or page time, compared to Jason and Darkseid, etc.

The whole Etta thing really makes me what to reorganize ARGUS, so she's included regularly in some capacity.

[The Dying Detective]

Yeah, I thought about mentioning the Oddfellows, but they're not getting a lot of characterization or page time, compared to Jason and Darkseid, etc.

The whole Etta thing really makes me what to reorganize ARGUS, so she's included regularly in some capacity.

The only ones that got any clear characterisation are Sameer and Charlie. Chief has yet to get any maybe except in the Steve Trevor special. Besides there were just too many Oddfellows to be given any clear characterisation. But once this arc arc maybe they will. And Darkseid kind of deserve the page time considering how much of a big deal he is. For Etta to get in on the action she needs a drop in rank and to be placed under Steve again maybe as his secretary again.

[scary harpy]

I read the current issue with Veronica. I do not see the appeal...but I don't find her unappealing at the same time

She could have easily been named Priscilla Rich; at least, that name had history with WW mythos and was not being used.

Cale is an obvious anagram of Clea so I wonder if the creators intended something to occur later, maybe.

[WonderScott]

I read the current issue with Veronica. I do not see the appeal...but I don't find her unappealing at the same time

She could have easily been named Priscilla Rich; at least, that name had history with WW mythos and was not being used.

Cale is an obvious anagram of Clea so I wonder if the creators intended something to occur later, maybe.

Interesting. I found her in this brief showing more interesting than in all of Rucka's second run. She had more teeth and verve in conversing with Diana, but I tend to like that quality in Diana's villains.

A Cale and Clea connection would be wild, but I'd prefer if they remain separate characters. Although it'd be awesome to see them interact. At the rate Robinson is adding characters, maybe we'll see it yet.

[The Dying Detective]

Interesting. I found her in this brief showing more interesting than in all of Rucka's second run. She had more teeth and verve in conversing with Diana, but I tend to like that quality in Diana's villains.

A Cale and Clea connection would be wild, but I'd prefer if they remain separate characters. Although it'd be awesome to see them interact. At the rate Robinson is adding characters, maybe we'll see it yet.

Definitely a little too Lex Luthor though but that is her character model.

[WonderScott]

Definitely a little too Lex Luthor though but that is her character model.

I don't mind the surface parallels of Cale and Luthor so much, as long as they find a creative way to use her that maybe comments on woman vs wonder woman themes at a new angle(tte). Remains to be seen if creative teams can do that.

[The Dying Detective]

I don't mind the surface parallels of Cale and Luthor so much, as long as they find a creative way to use her that maybe comments on woman vs wonder woman themes at a new angle(tte). Remains to be seen if creative teams can do that.

I just hope the writers can make her stand out in and to be set apart from Lex Luthor but given how his interest in science not magic maybe Cale could focus more on magic though again that's Barbara Ann Minerva. My concern is once she gets her daughter back she will not be a viable villain anymore. I wish her vendetta was built more on how she hates Diana because everything seems to have come so easy for her while Cale had to climb and claw her way to the top.

[AmiMizuno]

With Barbara it’s more of having the actually artifacts. Why not have Cale find a way recreate some magical artifacts. I mean yes she wants to collect magical artifacts but to figure out if she can mass product them ? Or at least have them in her court . To beat Diana