If (or perhaps when) disney get back the x-men and ff rights...

[Michael Watkins]

Not reading through all these pages, but.....

I don't want the mutants in the MCU. Trying to insert them now would almost certainly just feel really weird and awkward. And I never really felt like the mutants made a lot of sense within the context of the wider MU in the first place. I mean, you're gonna be all racist about Gambit and the threat of mutants out-breeding homo sapiens, but Thor can sleep with entire villages' worth of women at a time, over the course of centuries, and *that's* fine? Even by the inherently flawed thinking of racists, that doesn't make sense.

And trying to say that mutants have been around the whole time in the MCU feels dishonest. Who'd really believe that? Maybe you make mutants a new development, a result of all the superhuman craziness that's happened since 2008. But if you do that you cut huge chunks of the X-Men mythos out, and the math still doesn't add up. If mutation began with the start of the MCU, those mutants wouldn't even be in high school yet.

So I say let the mutants keep their own universe. Just having people like Fiege Godfather the property will improve the quality of those movies, they dont need to be in the MCU to accomplish quality.

As for the FF.....they're easy to introduce. They won't be the First Family anymore, but its not like that ever really mattered.

Not an FF fan but if it means getting to see a well done version of Doom on screen, I am all for it.

if you go the Ultimates route, you won't get a well done version of Doom.

[Drops Of Venus]

Him gaybaiting GotG2 (i.e. claiming there'd be gay characters when there weren't) which turned out to be the worst MCU movie yet, but for many unrelated reasons.
This was after stating that there couldn't be 'space lesbians' at the time of GotG.

The queerbaiting on GOTG2 came from Gunn, not Feige. The ''no space lesbians'' was something someone on Tumblr said they heard from Gunn in a convention or something regarding him being able to use Phyla-Vell and Moondragon in the movies, but I don't think there was ever a confirmation he really did say that.

[WebLurker]

I don't see why people keep saying you need to reboot the MCU(**** that idea) to fit the X-Men in, it's so simple just make it like X-Men Evolution, where mutants are rare enough they can be kept under the radar.
Hell they could make it a plot point that suddenly tons of mutants are awakening their powers and alerting the world to their presence.

That would work as far as why they hadn't headlined a story, but it would raise a lot of plot holes, like why S.H.I.E.L.D. and HYDRA were unaware of their existence (mutants wouldn't've been able to slip through their radars, based on how skilled they were at tracking superhumans), why mutants didn't get involved when the world was at stake, and why people would hate and fear mutants specifically when superhumans have become a fact of life and from a practical standpoint are the same difference (and yes, I know this is the way it works in the comics and that prejudices are not logical, but mutants as an oppressed minority in a superhero world never made much sense in the first place, from why mutants would be singled out to how people magically know which superheroes are mutants and which are not).

In other words, I don't think you can grandfather mutants into the MCU, since the MCU was built to be a mutant-less world. Heck, the MCU Inhumans were specifically written to replace mutants as the hated and feared superhumans.

[Wolverine12]

Seems like some people's definition of innovative is that a movie need to be either serious or R-rated or something like that. So let me say something that's going to get me crucified:

Logan is not innovative, new or creative, nor does it push the genre. It's as much formulaic and by the numbers movie as you can possibly get. "An aged former ex-hero/legend reluctantly takes on a last mission that gets him" You've never seen that movie before? It doesn't tell it's story in any different manner that'd make it something even remotely different from other movies with same plot.

Is Logan a good movie? Sure. Great even. But it's not innovative. I find it funny that the director said he was tired of seeing formulaic superhero movies(that aren't actually formulaic by the way) and then made an incredibly formulaic and by the numbers western. Why is swapping one very diverse genre with a straight forward western genre considered better?

You know which superhero movie was actually innovative? [This is going to get me crucified twice] Ant-Man. Yeah, that one. It's a heist+superhero movie. It didn't swap one genre for the other, but mixed them. And Ant-Man's shrinking powers help make the distinction between other heist movies and this one, which Wolverine's powers really don't.

I'm curious as to why powers count in Ant Man but not Logan. Also I've never seen a story like Logan done in the super hero genre either. In westerns, sure it is one that has been done before but not the only type of western out there. I've also seen heist movie where you could swap out Ant Man's shrinking for say a contortion artist (Ocean's 11). I agree that Ant Man was innovative because until then I hadn't seen a heist movie done as a super hero film but to say it was innovative but Logan wasn't seems hypocritical. I'm not gonna crucify you, but I do question why a heist+superhero is innovative when a western+superhero isn't. This all ties into my on topic portion of this post in a bit.

On topic: I think that I would like to see the X-Men introduced after either Infinity War part 1 (read during Infinity War part 2) or after Infinity War part 2. The infinity gauntlet is the perfect machine to do some cosmic rearranging and you could say that it altered the past, present and future. Do a soft reboot and give me a Wolverine and Cap period piece set in WWII with them teaming up to fight the Hand and Hydra in Japan.

You can continue to make R rated movies under the "Fox" banner so it doesn't directly have Disney on the cover so to speak, and that way we can still get Deadpool and Wolverine movies made the way they should be made.

This potential merger is a double edged sword for me however. I am really excited for New Mutants because it is Horror+Superhero and we haven't seen that yet. Just like Logan was a Western+Superhero and Ant Man was a heist+superhero and we hadn't seen that either. I like the idea of blending genres, and I know that I just listed an MCU film but Fox has seemed more aggressive recently when it comes to the "blending" aspect that I like. Logan, New Mutants, and Multiple Man (well the rumors anyways) are all unique takes on the superhero genre. If I'm being honest with myself I think that all these unique takes on the superhero genre would take a minimum 2-3 year back seat to the standard but necessary films that will be dedicated to flushing out who exactly are the X-Men and what is their role in the world now.

[SpiderClops]

I'm curious as to why powers count in Ant Man but not Logan. Also I've never seen a story like Logan done in the super hero genre either. In westerns, sure it is one that has been done before but not the only type of western out there. I've also seen heist movie where you could swap out Ant Man's shrinking for say a contortion artist (Ocean's 11). I agree that Ant Man was innovative because until then I hadn't seen a heist movie done as a super hero film but to say it was innovative but Logan wasn't seems hypocritical. I'm not gonna crucify you, but I do question why a heist+superhero is innovative when a western+superhero isn't. This all ties into my on topic portion of this post in a bit.

On topic: I think that I would like to see the X-Men introduced after either Infinity War part 1 (read during Infinity War part 2) or after Infinity War part 2. The infinity gauntlet is the perfect machine to do some cosmic rearranging and you could say that it altered the past, present and future. Do a soft reboot and give me a Wolverine and Cap period piece set in WWII with them teaming up to fight the Hand and Hydra in Japan.

You can continue to make R rated movies under the "Fox" banner so it doesn't directly have Disney on the cover so to speak, and that way we can still get Deadpool and Wolverine movies made the way they should be made.

This potential merger is a double edged sword for me however. I am really excited for New Mutants because it is Horror+Superhero and we haven't seen that yet. Just like Logan was a Western+Superhero and Ant Man was a heist+superhero and we hadn't seen that either. I like the idea of blending genres, and I know that I just listed an MCU film but Fox has seemed more aggressive recently when it comes to the "blending" aspect that I like. Logan, New Mutants, and Multiple Man (well the rumors anyways) are all unique takes on the superhero genre. If I'm being honest with myself I think that all these unique takes on the superhero genre would take a minimum 2-3 year back seat to the standard but necessary films that will be dedicated to flushing out who exactly are the X-Men and what is their role in the world now.

I'm not saying that Ant-Man's power's alone makes the difference. But his powers are such fantastical that it really helps. It really makes common heist movie set pieces innovative just by adding shrinking powers to it. But Wolverine's powers are more or less grounded compared to Ant-Man's. The set pieces aren't that much different, except for Xavier's psychic attack.

Other is that while Ant-Man is a heist movie, it never forgets that it's also a superhero movie. That's why I'm calling it heist+superhero. Logan doesn't feel like that to me. If feels like it wants to stay away from superhero elements as much as possible. I would call it a western that just happens to have some superpowered beings in it, rather than an actual merge, if that makes any sense.

[Wolverine12]

I'm not saying that Ant-Man's power's alone makes the difference. But his powers are such fantastical that it really helps. It really makes common heist movie set pieces innovative just by adding shrinking powers to it. But Wolverine's powers are more or less grounded compared to Ant-Man's. The set pieces aren't that much different, except for Xavier's psychic attack.

Other is that while Ant-Man is a heist movie, it never forgets that it's also a superhero movie. That's why I'm calling it heist+superhero. Logan doesn't feel like that to me. If feels like it wants to stay away from superhero elements as much as possible. I would call it a western that just happens to have some superpowered beings in it, rather than an actual merge, if that makes any sense.

I understand what you are saying but I just disagree. I personally don't think adding shrinking powers to a heist movie is more innovative than adding healing powers. unbreakable bones, psychics with dementia and clones to a western, these aren't powers you can just hand wave away and say not that big a deal. X-23 alone is just bonkers if you think about it. This really just boils down to a difference of opinion on what is fantastical. I think watching a man and child surviving dozens if not hundreds of gun shots as well as other violent attacks only to turn around and just obliterate their attacker is just as fantastical as a man shrinking down to the size of an ant.

My grandfather loved westerns, he even wrote some novels (never tried to get them published ) so when I was young and would visit we would always watch westerns or they would be on in the background so I've seen quite a few in my life and I definitely would not call Logan a "standard western" by any means. For me I am also taking into account everything that came before it from X1 to DoFP and when I think about all that Charles and Logan lived through together and fought for it just breaks my heart to see it end so "quietly" so to speak. No sentinels blowing them up or Magneto dropping a building on them, Charles dies in a bed in a strangers home and Logan dies in the middle of a forest surround by strangers and a daughter he just found out he had. It's so damn tragic.

Most westerns or movies in general don't have the opportunity to tell such a long story about it's character(s) and when I take that into consideration to me Logan is really unlike any film I've seen in any genre.

Anyways, we are super OT but if you want to continue to talk about this feel free to send me a pm or whatever.

[Iron Maiden]

I would love the idea of a Fantastic Four movie in the MCU is where four astronauts went missing in space in the late 60s, only to be found drifting in space and alive in their space ship. When brought back to Earth, they discover that the astronauts have powers. This way you can sort of explain away why some really smart people weren't around for a lot of the big things that's happened in the MCU, but also it's not an alternate dimension way of introducing the F4.

Hell, you could even have an Event Horizon explaination, where Reed Richards and crew had been on an experimental space expedition when they were lost in space as a result of a new propulsion engine test. They were basically attempting new space/time experiments and disappeared in a wormhole, only to be found in orbit of a distant planet (let's say Saturn, cuz I like the way it looks) and when they are found...they are discovered to have powers and they warn of a "door they may have left open", which could lead to a coming of Galactus story.

I like the idea the FF being off the board for a while too but I just want to add I love the Event Horizon reference...an underrated movie IMO.

[ijacksparrow]

Just cross posting what I've just said on ResetERA:

For those still using the tired argument that the X-Men wouldn't make sense within the Marvel Cinematic Universe:

You lack imagination, my friends. Also, attention span. Not only mutants would work in context of the MCU, they are already there. Watch:

1. Wanda and Pietro, both characters that when experienced on somehow something about them grant them super powers. Since their first appearance in the post credit scene in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, it's never throughly explained how their powers work and why the scepter gave powers to them and not other people. The truth is that it can be easily explained that Loki's scepter (Mind Infinity gem) never gave them anything, it just triggered the activation of their mutant genes.

2. Persecution? Prejudice? Fear? Look no longer than Captain America: Civil War. Wanda is hated, feared and seen as a living weapon of mass destruction, which in fact she in fact sort of is. "But what about the Hulk", you say. Well, the Hulk is also feared and hated. The difference is that with the X-Men and mutants in the fold, something triggers the mutant gene across the globe and we see more mutants manifesting and people will not handle that well. It's one thing to have costumed heroes rock stars saving the world, it's a different thing altogether when people with no training or preparation whatsoever start getting powers. Mass hysteria and fear would run wild.

3. But what about The Avengers? What about superheroes that are respected, why they don't do anything about that? We see police, our (very VERY few and rare) representatives fighting the good fight against hate crimes and prejudice. We see celebrities doing that on twitter all the time. If The Avengers and superheroes were real they also wouldn't be able to fight prejudice and fear by simply punching or speaking out against it. I mean, we can punch Nazis and I'm all very much for it, but that doesn't stop them from existing, does it? What could possibly The Avengers or any other group of superheroes do against hate, prejudice and corruption other than stand up against them like we all do - or you know, should be doing?

4. Kevin Feige is right. Look to the comics and why it works. The answers are always there. The truth is that X-Men's themes of prejudice and fear are more now and more needed than ever before. I'm happy and excited with the prospects of seeing all these characters coming home.

Kevin Feige about introducing mutants and X-Men characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe:



TL;DR: You can have a discussion about your personal preference tastes, you can talk about how content creators as big as Disney and Fox quasimerging could be dangerous, sure. But saying that they wouldn't work in the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

Nope, that's flat out wrong.

[Carabas]

TL;DR: You can have a discussion about your personal preference tastes, you can talk about how content creators as big as Disney and Fox quasimerging could be dangerous, sure. But saying that they wouldn't work in the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

Nope, that's flat out wrong.

When people say this, usually they're talking about dropping a fully-formed X-Verse, or even Fox's X-Verse, into the MCU. Wich wouldn't work.

[ijacksparrow]

When people say this, usually they're talking about dropping a fully-formed X-Verse, or even Fox's X-Verse, into the MCU. Wich wouldn't work.

But of course it wouldn't work. It's like wanting Tobey Spidey in the MCU or Andrew Spidey playing a teenager. It doesn't fit, hence why it needs a reboot. Other than Deadpool the Singerverse isn't going anywhere anyway, so I don't see the big deal out of it. It's a dying franchise, waiting for its final blow. Shutting down TDP would be mercy. And brand image control.

[Keyotheseasons]

Just cross posting what I've just said on ResetERA:

For those still using the tired argument that the X-Men wouldn't make sense within the Marvel Cinematic Universe:

You lack imagination, my friends. Also, attention span. Not only mutants would work in context of the MCU, they are already there. Watch:

1. Wanda and Pietro, both characters that when experienced on somehow something about them grant them super powers. Since their first appearance in the post credit scene in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, it's never throughly explained how their powers work and why the scepter gave powers to them and not other people. The truth is that it can be easily explained that Loki's scepter (Mind Infinity gem) never gave them anything, it just triggered the activation of their mutant genes.

2. Persecution? Prejudice? Fear? Look no longer than Captain America: Civil War. Wanda is hated, feared and seen as a living weapon of mass destruction, which in fact she in fact sort of is. "But what about the Hulk", you say. Well, the Hulk is also feared and hated. The difference is that with the X-Men and mutants in the fold, something triggers the mutant gene across the globe and we see more mutants manifesting and people will not handle that well.

I get what you are saying and am not against it if that is what they would do, but triggering the mutant gene via a catalyst on a global basis just blurs the lines too much for me between Mutants and Inhumans. With the bad blood between the fan bases I think the best course of action is to distance the two IPs from one another for a while. X-Men fans have major beef with Inhumans encroaching their territory and some Inhumans fans are upset at the abuse and negativity the IP is suffering because of it.

I would like to see Mutants introduced to the MCU via Kang. Have the Avengers fight Kang and have mutants become a repercussion of the altering of the timeline. Somewhere along the way through time something changed in the past that caused mutations in normal homo-sapiens to occur. The Avengers defeat Kang and everything is the same except that mutants are now a thing. It would be a believable and pretty seamless segue. I also think it could set up future Kang movies. He returns to get revenge on the Avengers and correct the time anomaly that is mutants. It would give mutants an extinction event that isn't based on persecution by another hero or humanity. It gives them an even bigger threat to fight against.

[Carabas]

I get what you are saying and am not against it if that is what they would do, but triggering the mutant gene via a catalyst on a global basis just blurs the lines too much for me between Mutants and Inhumans. With the bad blood between the fan bases I think the best course of action is to distance the two IPs from one another for a while. X-Men fans have major beef with Inhumans encroaching their territory and some Inhumans fans are upset at the abuse and negativity the IP is suffering because of it.

I doubt it matters much. Neither fanbase is a significant part of the target audience.

[Oberon]

Long before the Inhumans movie that ended up on TV, when it was a grander movie concept, I had an idea of inverting the FF discover Inhumans story so that a retro group of adventurers, possibly ShIELD, Pym related

Left earth around November '61, secret mission, to head to the Moon, as they had just noticed that a large ship or land mass left earth and went there.

But upon arriving, they were captured, subjected to experiments (gained their powers) but were ultimately put in frozen status.

Decades later they are released somehow, through a more benevolent Royal family, the current.

You could even have scenes of Crystal staring at a frozen Johnny and slowly falling in love with him.

But basically, they too, like cap, are sorta out of time, but with Reed's legal things and estates in stasis they are able to adapt and find their place as the Fantastic Four.

[Oberon]

Oh my Goddess! That's so awesome! That would be a real fun and twisty way to bring them in. One of my favorite early FF stories was "The Micro-World of Doctor Doom" where Hank Pym Antman help the four shrink down to fight Doom's takeover of a micro world.

[Oberon]

Yes, I actually believe that post 2020 or so, they would have to do some re-boot in order to accommodate that. Possibly something with whoever ends up with the Reality stone after Avengers 4...