So I'm undertaking what I'm calling my Ultimate Knightfall Mapping to hopefully soon custom bind, but I'm struggling at little bit. When it comes to the Prelude to a Fall/Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend/Prodigal?Troika issues to be included and the order, I think I'm where I want to be. I'm including almost everything one could include (even things such as Turning Point #4, Legend of the Dark Knight #28 and Batman: Mitefall, Secret Files and Origins, Batman v. Punisher, etc.). However, what I'd like advice on is what I'm tentatively calling the Prelude to the Prelude (title definitely subject to change).
The real impetus for this is the inclusion of Legend of the Dark #16-20, Venom. Not only is it a really neat story, but it essentially kicks off Knightfall in a way. It introduces the drug and Santa Prisca, as well as the theme of Batman not being up to the physical demands of being the hero he wants to be - which is certainly a major theme of the Knightfall Saga. While I can neatly put it at the beginning of my Prelude to a Fall, I feel like there are enough compelling stories that give context to the Knightfall Saga proper to justify a volume dedicated to them. But I need suggestions, here's a general idea of what I have, but note I don't own a lot of the issues in this general time period and so I legitimately don't know if I'm missing issues that fit what I'm looking for.
Prelude to a Prelude 1
1. Detective Comics #604 (Mudpack: Part 1 - Clayface)
2. Detective Comics #605 (Mudpack: Part 2 - Clayface)
3. Detective Comics #606 (Mudpack: Part 3 - Clayface)
4. Detective Comics #607 (Mudpack: Part 4 - Clayface)
5. Detective Comics #608 (First Anarky)
6. Detective Comics #609 (Anarky)
7. Detective Comics #610 (Penguin)
8. Detective Comics #611 (Penguin)
9. Batman #448 (The Penguin Affair: Part 1)
10. Detective Comics #615 (The Penguin Affair: Part 2)
11. Batman #449 (The Penguin Affair: Part 3)
12. Detective Comics #618 (Rite of Passage: Part 1 - Obeah Man)
13. Detective Comics #619 (Rite of Passage: Part 2 - Obeah Man)
14. Detective Comics #620 (Rite of Passage: Part 3 – Obeah Man)
15. Detective Comics #621 (Rite of Passage: Part 4 – Obeah Man)
16. Batman #455 (Tim’s mother’s funeral)
17. Batman #456
18. Detective Comics #625 (Abattoir)
19. Detective Comics #628 (Abattoir again)
20. Batman #457 (Tim becomes Robin)
21. Batman #458 (Batman saves Harold, Gordon invites Sarah Essen back)
22. Batman #459 (Gordon chest pain)
Prelude to a Prelude 2
1. Batman #462 (Spirit of the Beast: Part 1) ??
2. Batman #463 (Spirit of the Beast: Part 2) ??
3. Batman #464 (Spirit of the Beast: Part 3) ??
4. Batman #465 (Jack Drake wakes up, Sarah says yes to Gordon)
5. Batman #467???
6. Batman #668???
7. Batman #469???
8. Batman #471 (Killer Croc comes to Gotham)
9. Batman #475 (The Return of Scarface: Part 1 – Ventriloquist)
10. Detective Comics #642 (The Return of Scarface: Part 2 – Ventriloquist)
11. Batman #476 (The Return of Scarface: Part 3 – Ventriloquist)
12. Detective Comics #647 (First appearance Stephanie Brown - Cluemaster)
13. Detective Comics #648 (Cluemaster)
14. Detective Comics #649 (Cluemaster)
15. Detective Comics #650 (Harold discovers subway system)
16. Detective Comics #651???
17. Detective Comics #652 (Huntress team up)
18. Detective Comics #653
19. Batman #480 (Jack Drake comes home)
20. Batman #481
21. Batman #482
22. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #1
23. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #2
24. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #3
25. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #4
26. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #5
27. Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #6
I'm breaking the volumes up into 25 (no more) issues, so that's why they are numbered. The goal of these is to set up context for Knightfall (such as Jack Drake being kidnapped, Tim's mother dying, and Jack coming home), or a decent story that sets up a villain that appears in Knightfall (like Killer Croc or the Ventriloquist). If there are any suggestions for some more stories in this general time period I should check out, or if some of these really aren't a good fit, please let me know. Really, any suggestions are more than welcome!
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04-24-2018, 05:23 AM #31All-New Member
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Last edited by McScroggz; 04-24-2018 at 05:30 AM.
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04-24-2018, 10:09 AM #32Mighty Member
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Well you are missing the most important, which is Sword of Azreal. Sword of Azrael is also the first Batstory with Barbara Gordon as Oracle (Oracle appeared a bit before that in Suicde Squad if I'm not mistaking). So you can also add The Killing Joke, it is where Barbara as Batgirl gets crippled.
Originally Posted by McScroggz
Sword of Azreal concludes in Batman #488.
Don't forget also Vengeance of Bane.
As for Turning Point, isn't it more a sequel to No Man's Land ?
Concerning the After. Don't forget:
* Nightwing: Alfred's Return
* Batman #522 - Swamp Thing helps CrocLast edited by jb681131; 04-24-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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04-24-2018, 10:33 PM #33All-New Member
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Thank you for your suggestions. I've meticulously poured over my single issues and forums to get the Prelude to a Knightfall through Prodigal/Troika pretty much set in stone. This includes Sword of Azrael, Vengeance of Bane 1 & 2, and Nightwing: Alfred's Return. I haven't heard mention of Batman #522, so I will check it out and see it if fits in. Although Azrael #2>Vengeance of Bane 2 makes for a really good and natural conclusion. Originally Posted by jb681131
What I'm most interested in are stories from the general time frame of Legend of the Dark Knight #16-20 (March, 1991 Publication), through the beginning of the Prelude to a Knightfall issues, which normally is Batman #484 and Detective Comics #654. It's the issues in the two years before Knightfall starts (roughly) where there are stories that set up characters and/or themes that will give a little more context to the saga. Things like Tim's parents being kidnapped, his mother dying and his father getting paralyzed. Stephanie Brown's introduction. Stuff like this.
Obviously I don't want to go too far back or add too many issues for villains that show up during Knightfall. It's more about rounding out the (possible) hardcover edition to have as much relevant content as I can squeeze in without going to far. It is meant to be a loose supplement to the large Knightfall Saga and not just a collection of Batman stories, after all. Granted, it's easier to have too many somewhat relevant stories and I can trim down to however many fit in the hardcover, so I'm trying to keep it broad but not entirely unfocused.
Oh and Turning Point #4 deals specifically with Knightfall.
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04-25-2018, 12:04 PM #34Spectacular Member
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IS everyone talking about the TPB "Omnibuses" or the HC Omnibuses?
If I've never read Knightfall saga and I were to get the 3 HC Knightfall Omnibuses do they include everything? Any manufacturing problems with these?
If not, what are they missing and where should those missing issues be read?
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04-25-2018, 12:20 PM #35Incredible Member
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First omnibus excludes Sword of Azrael and volume 2 has out-of-order pages. Volume 3 doesn't have the zero issues solicited.
McScroggz, you might as well just omnibus all the Batman comics of this period because basically all of them have some significance to some aspect of the Knightfall saga. And I don't see it brought up a whole lot, so I thought I'd mention the continuity Easter egg of Doug Moench's five-issue Batman: Unseen which reveals Black Mask was apprehended at some point after his return and prior to the breaking of the Bat. Black Mask is still Batman's number one concern at the beginning and Bane is not mentioned whatsoever, so I would read it just after Batman #487, and before the Arkham breakout, to account for Roman's absence throughout the rest of the Knightsaga and his continued freedom in the post-Troika Bat-books. Don't forget Legends Annual #2 which I would put just prior to Batman #487 as well.
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04-25-2018, 08:41 PM #36All-New Member
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That is a great suggestion, I will track it down. Thank you! Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez
There are a couple reasons I don’t want to just make an omnibus for the entire era. One is that I don’t want to collect the completely random story arcs, especially with completely forgettable villains, that have basically no practical effect on continuity or gives no context for the Knightall Saga. Another is I want to be able to pick a starting point (almost definitely Legend of the Dark Knight #16) and be able to read the entire collection as one mega arc. Sure, some stuff isn’t necessary, and I’m going a little crazy with wanting a prelude to the prelude to Knoghtfall, but I think it will make for a really nice read.
But there are many issues I haven’t read so that’s why I’m a little lost.
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04-26-2018, 07:39 AM #37Spectacular Member
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Do the paperback Omnibuses contain the same issues as the newly released hardcover edition omnibuses? Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez
I know the paper quality is different, but wondering if it contains the same content?
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04-26-2018, 10:34 AM #38Astonishing Member
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Are you talking about the fat trades that came out around 2012 vs the newer Omnibus'? If so, the trades leave soooo much out. The Knightfall prelude was not included, nor was Knightquest: The Search. The new omnibus editions contain those things (still no Sword of Azrael though) and I believe volume 3 next week also has added Troika & Nightwing: Alfred's Return (I think that's the name of it). Originally Posted by ArthurCurry
The new omnibus volumes are not 100% complete, and volume 2 seperates The Crusade and The Search for some reason, but unless you're going to custom bind* everything yourself then these are the better option. And if you're patient, I'm sure new solicits will be made soon, if not already, regarding breaking up the omni's into more tpb collections.
*If you wanted to custom bind them, JBatmanfan05 is your man! His binds look beautiful, and he did a fantastic job with mapping everything."Darkseid...always hated music..."
Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."
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04-26-2018, 12:51 PM #39Spectacular Member
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Clark Kent, Originally Posted by Clark_Kent
Thanks for the info,
Arthur Curry
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04-26-2018, 02:27 PM #40Astonishing Member
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No problem Arthur. See ya on the Watchtower! Originally Posted by ArthurCurry
"Darkseid...always hated music..."
Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."
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04-27-2018, 08:35 AM #41Incredible Member
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Spot on. I've never understood why they don't count that as part of the story. Even Proigal sets and the Prodigal trade don't have it. It kinda has to be considered part 1 of that story, or the prelude at least. Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05
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05-01-2018, 10:05 AM #42Incredible Member
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Just a thought but if you want the pre-Knightfall buildup you might also wish to include some of the Death of Superman issues (particularly Funeral for a Friend) as it helps further set up Batman's emotional turmoil and why most characters are wearing the black "S" armbands before the Arkham breakout Originally Posted by McScroggz
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07-14-2018, 09:19 AM #43tbaum80Guest
OOPS. I had tried to PM member JBatmanFan but it ended up as a threat reply.
Hey there JBatman,
I was wondering, have you ever sold your collected custom bound Knightfall? I recently purchased what appears to be a custom bound version of Knightfall collected from old issues/TPB from a local used bookstore here in Houston, TX called Half-Price Books. Wondering if someone who had previously purchased from you might have sold there's and now I have them! I can send photos if you'd like to check. I am super stoked about this find, seems like a great way to read the series for the first time.
Best,
Dan
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07-17-2018, 03:47 PM #44Not a Newbie Member
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I have never sold them. I had mine made at some expense and blood sweat and tears and I certainly don't sell my binds (otherwise why did I go thru all the trouble to make them to begin with?). Seeing a custom comic bind in Half Priced Books (we have those in my state as well) is extremely rare. But no idea (unless it has a table of contents) how complete or correctly ordered this used volume is. I suspect the new DC Omnibuses have caused the owner to part with his. It's possible him parting with his volume means he thinks it isn't perfect or correct or complete enough. But DC's volumes aren't complete or perfect either. DC's first Kfall Omnibus doesn't have Sword of Azrael. And DC's vol 2 Omnibus has a printing error with pages in incorrect order. Vol 3 Knightsend will probably get something wrong too. Originally Posted by tbaum80
Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 07-17-2018 at 03:56 PM.
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07-18-2018, 11:34 AM #45Spectacular Member
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BTW on Amazon to be released In November onwards are 25th anniversary edition Trades of the 3 Knightfall Trades from 2012 but slightly altered. Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05
Plus a further 3 Trades collecting the highlighted material added to the new Omnibuses listed at start of this thread, Split into:
Prequel to Knighfall.
Knightquest the Crusade.
Knightfall the Search.
Basically these 6 Trades will collect everything in the current 3 Omnibus.
I personally already have the 2012 three book trade collection but always rued that Knightfall the search was not included. Rather than buy the current 3 Omnibus with printing errors I will instead “definitely” purchase this soon to be released new Knightfall the Search trade when released to complete and segment into my current 2012 Knightfall 3 book trade collection.Last edited by Dr.Octagon; 07-19-2018 at 07:19 AM.
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