Superman#36 Discussion and Spoilers

[Sacred Knight]

I'd say the Oz Effect felt like forced "big stakes." I wouldn't want things like that in this run.

Oz Effect was a result of a conclusion not befitting a set up. The set up was fine, the payoff failed. Not so much forced as it was a letdown. But either way the results were similar. The results of Oz Effect and the past 8 months of Superman are, in the end, crap stories. What Action has going for it right now is that A, its not a trend, things were pretty good immediately prior to Oz Effect; and B, it has a writer whom by reputation doesn't generally mess up in the way the Oz Effect did so there's at least reason for me to hope for a bounce-back in that regard. Since Superman to me has been consistently awful for consistent reasons, I dont' have the same hope there. Hence going back all the way to the beginning and my hope for a new creative team, whether that hope has any current legs or not.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Oz Effect was a result of a conclusion not befitting a set up. The set up was fine, the payoff failed. Not so much forced as it was a letdown. But either way the results were similar. The results of Oz Effect and the past 8 months of Superman are, in the end, crap stories. What Action has going for it right now is that A, its not a trend, things were pretty good immediately prior to Oz Effect; and B, it has a writer whom by reputation doesn't generally mess up in the way the Oz Effect did so there's at least reason for me to hope for a bounce-back in that regard. Since Superman to me has been consistently awful for consistent reasons, I dont' have the same hope there. Hence going back all the way to the beginning and my hope for a new creative team, whether that hope has any current legs or not.

But again, a lot of people would probably tell you it’s not a trend in the Superman title. The critical consensus around this run is still very positive and a lot of people (including myself) actually enjoyed stories like Black Dawn and Imperius Lex. I actually thought the last arc was a return to form for the team. The filler issues did disappoint, but again, they were filler. The team was putting effort into the major arcs. If it’s not your cup of tea, it’s not your cup of tea, but the consensus is nowhere near “Tomasi and Gleason have to go.”

[Sacred Knight]

And they're just as free to believe that as I am to believe otherwise. I'll argue my position and my feelings, but I'm not trying to change anyone's mind who feels otherwise. This opinion is as is any other: it can fall in a majority, it can fall in a minority, it can fall in a mixed bag. Whatever side any one of my opinions fall on will always fall where it may, but it won't ever change how I might personally feel one way or another. Only thing where I fall in this case matters is in regards of if my wish has any chance of happening any time soon. In that regards I already know the answer to that is probably no. If sales stay good, things will stay the same. I know its as simple as that. I've never once said anything even remotely close to professing a consensus that Tomasi and Gleason have to go. I've pointed out others who've had criticisms of this run before but only in the context of defending the silly notions of agenda as to why one may not like this book. Never to try and make the claim that enough people don't like it that there's tangible evidence that change needed to be made from. My words have been framed as my beliefs and mine alone from the start. Further I've never ever claimed effort was not put into the book. Of course effort is put into it. A reader not liking a book is not mutually exclusive to the notion they feel no effort as been put forth in the product. In any case, a potential change has always ever only been framed as what I wish, and something that I will personally wait for before jumping back on the book. So you're not telling me anything that I don't already know; its nothing I've ever needed to be reminded of.

[Miles To Go]

The results of Oz Effect and the past 8 months of Superman are, in the end, crap stories.

That's, in the end, only your opinion, yet you state it as if it were factual.

[Sacred Knight]

No, I didn't. You know it. You're just insisting on it to keep arguing. This is a community of intelligent people where statements of opinion do not have to be labeled as such 100% of the time lest the mutual understanding go unheard. Its more than clear my arguments speak based on a personal opinion. This even if I hadn't already outright pointed it specifically out more than once.

[Nyssane]

I'm not a regular reader of Superman, but I have been reading this arc, and I have to say... Lois Lane beating the Female Furies is one of the worst "battles" I've seen in a long, long time.

The Female Furies are New Gods of Apokolips. They fight Superman, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and other A-List powerhouses on the regular. They can easily take a hit from any of the aforementioned heroes. Yet they get knocked unconscious by a normal human being?

This doesn't just make the Furies look bad, it lessens Darkseid's threat as *the* DC supervillain when his elite warriors are defeated by someone without superpowers.

I don't know if it's because the Furies are all women and the writer (making them blatant "feminazis" seems tasteless as hell, too), or if the writer just had no idea of their power levels, but they've commonly been regarded as some of the most powerful and skilled fighters in the DC Universe. In no universe would Lois Lane even be able to hold her own against one of the Furies, let alone the whole batch (although Bernadeth seems suspiciously missing during this whole arc).

[Sacred Knight]

Tomasi just doesn't seem to get the New Gods mythos. He's done this before, minimizing the lore in Hunt for Robin when Batman basically made all of Apokolips look as threatening as an average slum. I have no problem with seeing Lois show some physical fortitude. But mostly? Her strength is in the pen, not the sword. I mean, she's not stranger to physical confrontation, nor should she be. She's been in her fair share of fights, and she's got some moves being an army brat and I do believe has studied some light martial arts. But, y'know, against human beings. Beating beings such as the Furies is just ridiculous. This was on another level than her utilizing Hell Bat tech every once in a while to survive some confrontation (Eradicator, Frankenstein). Those are small deus ex machinas that I can easily accept. Tomasi took it too far here though.

[Kuwagaton]

Not that it isn't ridiculous, but I think people get too hung up when they see a "mismatch" in comics. It's dismissed as bad writing although it's probably one of the most realistic things they depict. Who hasn't fallen short of a task well below them? Lois here is like a 120 pound Buster Douglas and the furies are basically the same characters as Lashina was when she posed as the Duchess and got taken out by Batman. New gods power levels are always funky because one minute Scott can hang with Superman and the next he absolutely cannot.

I don't know if it's because the Furies are all women and the writer (making them blatant "feminazis" seems tasteless as hell, too)

Yeah, reminds me of Morrison using Magneto to make Nazi references.