Should Emma be forgiven for her transgressions from the past?

[Hizashi]

She helped Bobby accept who he was, otherwise he'd grow up to be as repressed as the Iceman we had. Not to mention, he was in a safe environment, and she pulled him aside first to let him know that she knows. Also you are talking about Jeen and not Jean so completely different.

I still think it was unnecessary and poorly handled; more power to you if you enjoy it, but that really soured me on Jeen and Iceman.

[Hizashi]

You should check out UXM 151-152 because this whole incident is in that storyline and not The Dark Phoenix Saga which is probably why you don't remember it. It was never a really popular storyline and has been mostly forgotten, which I'm sure many are glad is the case.

Thanks, I’ll be sure to check them out. I credit Whedon and Ellis for helping me enjoy Scemma, but I’ll admit I seem to be ignorant of Emma’s more questionable actions. I remembered her as more of a lower-tier villain, which I think probably helped me accept her relationship with Scott.

[Ulfhammer]

I think he only buried her so he could play kissy face with his strumpet on her grave.

I trust you're joking. Let me know if your not before I go off on a diatribe about this.

[JeanGreyForever]

I still think it was unnecessary and poorly handled; more power to you if you enjoy it, but that really soured me on Jeen and Iceman.

I didn't like the execution of it either, but I think it was blown out of of proportion.

Thanks, I’ll be sure to check them out. I credit Whedon and Ellis for helping me enjoy Scemma, but I’ll admit I seem to be ignorant of Emma’s more questionable actions. I remembered her as more of a lower-tier villain, which I think probably helped me accept her relationship with Scott.

She definitely was a lower-tier villain which is why most people don't really remember some of the more grievous actions she committed.

I trust you're joking. Let me know if your not before I go off on a diatribe about this.

I'm kind of interested in hearing your diatribe on this so maybe I should say that I'm not joking.

[Fantasy Free Me]

Because polls and votes have so much credibility these days. Not to mention with fake news all around. This was expected which is why it's even more imperative for the real narrative to be known.

Also some posters have already said they regret their vote but have no way of changing it now.

l o l

So, isn't the idea of the whole thread to know people's opinion on the matter? People voted, they expressed their opinion and just because you don't agree with it "it lacks credibility"? I bet your opinion would be different here if the overall result was different.

[Victorian_Soul]

I just wanna say everyone who keeps saying these are fictional characters and people shouldn't have so much hate need to understand, that writers whether literature, videogames, TV/movies, and etc. are suppose to make characters that the audience fall in love with or relate too. So if someone has a type of emotions about a character then it's obviously working.

[JeanGreyForever]

l o l

So, isn't the idea of the whole thread to know people's opinion on the matter? People voted, they expressed their opinion and just because you don't agree with it "it lacks credibility"? I bet your opinion would be different her if the overall result was different.

Already, I've heard several people say they wish they could reconsider and change their votes after viewing the evidence in this thread. The antiquated mechanics of this forum means that once someone has voted, they cannot change their vote. So already that skews the results. On top of that, many people will just vote and not bother reading so they aren't aware of the evidence at all and because of the propaganda that has pushed this character for about a decade, while ignoring her entire past history, most people aren't aware of her plethora of misdeeds.

Anyway, it's possible that this poll is completely accurate. That could be the most likely case. I wouldn't be surprised because we've seen that sexual offenders seem to get the votes these days, in which case, this poll really just reflects the state of the world right now.

[JeanGreyForever]

I just wanna say everyone who keeps saying these are fictional characters and people shouldn't have so much hate need to understand, that writers whether literature, videogames, TV/movies, and etc. are suppose to make characters that the audience fall in love with or relate too. So if someone has a type of emotions about a character then it's obviously working.

Completely agree with this and everyone else who wrote something similar. Haters simply like to change the narrative when they feel under attack by dismissing any connections whatsoever.

[Hizashi]

I didn't like the execution of it either, but I think it was blown out of of proportion.

It wasn't the ruination of the character, but I still don't like it. The Iceman solo seems to get good reviews, some from people I know from my local comics shop, but I've flipped through a couple of issues, and nothing in the book has changed my mind. Actually, opening a new issue in the hopes of finding something worth my money adequately describes every X-book I flip through. Maybe I'm being a little severe, but everything has just been okay or mediocre, and that's not enough when there are other books I could buy.

She definitely was a lower-tier villain which is why most people don't really remember some of the more grievous actions she committed.

Yeah, I'll check it out, but I'll say this before I do so I can come back to this post and see how my opinion changes: could this be a case of the writer not understanding the ramifications of what they've written? Look at the Maddie situation.

I'm kind of interested in hearing your diatribe on this so maybe I should say that I'm not joking.

I'm curious too, although I think I have an idea of what it might be.

[ZNOP]

You should check out UXM 151-152 because this whole incident is in that storyline and not The Dark Phoenix Saga which is probably why you don't remember it. It was never a really popular storyline and has been mostly forgotten, which I'm sure many are glad is the case.

UX-Men #151-152 (much like UX-Men #129-131) are required reading as both story arcs show us exactly what kind of person Emma Frost really is...

[comradepitrovsky]

Generation X is from the 90s and that is not 1986. She was described during her inception as being a contemporary of Xavier, Magneto, and Shaw in her 40s-50s or whatever age they were and I always go by the original canon that Claremont came up with, regardless of what other writers embellished or outright bastardized.

And yes, you should have expected it. I can't say the same though.

Marvel Handbook 8, 1986. Note the "despite her youth"

[Hizashi]

Marvel Handbook 8, 1986. Note the "despite her youth"

Actually, this reminded me that I wanted to bring something to JeanGreyForever's attention: I have no doubt that you're correct when you say that Emma was described as being a contemporary of Xavier, Magneto, Shaw, etc. but that wouldn't necessarily mean she's a member of their generation or in their age group. If you and I were historians, and I was significantly older than you, you would still be considered my contemporary.

[JeanGreyForever]

Marvel Handbook 8, 1986. Note the "despite her youth"

The handbooks from the 80s were brimming with errors and usually filled with headcanon, like the name of Kurt's father. It isn't canon. Anyway youth is subjective.

Actually, this reminded me that I wanted to bring something to JeanGreyForever's attention: I have no doubt that you're correct when you say that Emma was described as being a contemporary of Xavier, Magneto, Shaw, etc. but that wouldn't necessarily mean she's a member of their generation or in their age group. If you and I were historians, and I was significantly older than you, you would still be considered my contemporary.

That I understand, but I remember Claremont saying that she was always intended to be in their age group, hence the flat chest and why she was a headmistress of a school, like Xavier. I don't think he ever used the word contemporary himself, but that's the word I used to describe how all were in the same age group, but as you noted, contemporary can mean more than that.

[Michael Watkins]

that makes her almost relationship with Sean Cassidy kind of creepy. wouldn't she be around the age of his daughter?

[JeanGreyForever]

It wasn't the ruination of the character, but I still don't like it. The Iceman solo seems to get good reviews, some from people I know from my local comics shop, but I've flipped through a couple of issues, and nothing in the book has changed my mind. Actually, opening a new issue in the hopes of finding something worth my money adequately describes every X-book I flip through. Maybe I'm being a little severe, but everything has just been okay or mediocre, and that's not enough when there are other books I could buy.



Yeah, I'll check it out, but I'll say this before I do so I can come back to this post and see how my opinion changes: could this be a case of the writer not understanding the ramifications of what they've written? Look at the Maddie situation.



I'm curious too, although I think I have an idea of what it might be.

I think most X-Fans have been disappointed with the quality of the X-Books lately. I know I've felt that for some years now, almost as long as Jean was dead, if not even longer.

Well, the writer was Claremont, so take from that what you will. Sex and especially domination were always very major tropes in his writing, so I think he knew what he was doing, especially since he makes sure to remember the rivalry between the two women when he writes them again in X-Treme X-Men. Maddie was more of an editorial mess so I think she qualifies as something different and completely unique. Her whole character was invented to give Scott a happy ending as Jean Grey 2.0, being Jean basically in all but name, while implementing some of the traits that Claremont would have loved in a regular modern woman. Then with Jean back, she couldn't co-exist, so she had to become the sacrificial lamb in order to preserve Scott's character. So the writers definitely knew what they were doing when it came to her, but all the history of retcons and changes made her existence incredibly difficult to justify.