Should Emma be forgiven for her transgressions from the past?

[ExodusCloak]

Did you even read the Schism story? He teleported Mary Holland onto the ice to die with the others. She was an innocent person, just doing her job as a maid. And since when does being killed, or being a ghost(where he was initially cast in an adversarial light in that Academy X story anyways...), absolve you of killing an innocent person in your own life?

He was a minor who escaped from bogan. No different to Storm killing that dude in curse of mutants then

You're omitting the bit where he was trying to scare the New X-Men away because he felt the school was not safe. And btw it was Dani who was trying to evacuate the school and he disobeyed her and got hit by the ceiling

[yogaflame]

He was a minor who escaped from bogan. No different to Storm killing that dude in curse of mutants then

You're omitting the bit where he was trying to scare the New X-Men away because he felt the school was not safe. And btw it was Dani who was trying to evacuate the school and he disobeyed her and got hit by the ceiling

I don't think Bogan was going to kill his maid that evening. The human was actually already dead the moment the vamps hooked her up to that machine.

Well, maybe Dani wouldn't had had to evacuate the school(and the young teleporter not tried to get his family photos) if Emma had spent more time protecting her students instead of chasing after Scott's D. Magneto/Xorn/whatever was under her nose the whole time.

[ExodusCloak]

I don't think Bogan was going to kill his maid that evening. The human was actually already dead the moment the vamps hooked her up to that machine.

Well, maybe Dani wouldn't had had to evacuate the school(and the young teleporter not tried to get his family photos) if Emma had spent more time protecting her students instead of chasing after Scott's D. Magneto/Xorn/whatever was under her nose the whole time.

You could make the argument that Jeffrey wasn't able to tell the difference who were his captors and who wasn't. Who was compromised.

She still took an innocents life and he wasn't dead anyway. He would have just bled out fast. A telekinetic could have helped his blood inside or he could have been healed by elixir

[yogaflame]

You could make the argument that Jeffrey wasn't able to tell the difference who were his captors and who wasn't. Who was compromised.

She still took an innocents life and he wasn't dead anyway. He would have just bled out fast. A telekinetic could have helped his blood inside or he could have been healed by elixir

I'll play your little game even if you are using it to hide from my last point.

So Emma can kill lots of Inhumans to save mutantkind, but Storm can't kill one human to save mutantkind(from the Vampires)? At least Storm wasn't cackling while she destroyed the vampire rig(her powers weren't at their usual finesse due to the dark magic of the vampire's island, and unless she took down the rig, the shield wouldn't come down and no reinforcements could come and Gambit/Janus/Storm would have died).

[Hizashi]

what mutants died to her inaction? and she did act, she with the help of the xmen removed mutants all across the world to limbo to remove them from harms way and she worked with the inhumans to find a cure for those who had been exposed. and she didn't destroy it for diplomatic reasons as she was trying to avert going to war. again you don't have to agree with her approach but this ideas she was not active in trying to save lives is false.

It doesn't matter that they were unnamed, there were countless mutants being killed, and it was stated that there was no universal cure for M-Pox, which was fatal. I don't mean she did absolutely nothing when I say "inaction", I mean she should've destroyed the cloud and fought the Inhumans if that's what they chose to do. The Inhumans would not be wiped out if the cloud was destroyed, so better to remove the immediate threat to innocent lives.

this thread is about all the evil things Emma has done since when she first appeared as a part if the hellfire. not other characters.

This thread is asking if she should be forgiven and I only see her evil actions being debated, but we can't answer that question with only those things being discussed.

no. ivx as bad as it is still 616.

Okay, sure, good, then she's unforgivable.

not important at all. what's important is that it aligns to the many horrible things she has done and attempted to do in past. go and read those stories were she tortured and defiled ororo's body.

There were 20-30 years that passed since those stories you point to as evidence of her irredeemable nature. How can consistency with characterization decades old instead of consistency with characterization only weeks/months old be a good thing? Maybe I will agree with you once I've read those stories, but then I'll still be disappointed by Marvel for different reasons.

no one is ignoring them. the "good" she had done doesn't give her a pass for all the horrible things she has is my point

Okay, but if that's the case then can anyone be redeemed? Do we have to be altruistic in doing all things in order to be good?

it was pathetic and sad, but expected. it's Emma frost

It was disappointing to me because I had hoped that Emma would take up Scott's efforts to do what was necessary for the future of mutants despite what anyone might think of her - except Marvel decided she was gonna kill innocent Inhumans. Scott would not have condoned that.

[ExodusCloak]

I'll play your little game even if you are using it to hide from my last point.

So Emma can kill lots of Inhumans to save mutantkind, but Storm can't kill one human to save mutantkind(from the Vampires)? At least Storm wasn't cackling while she destroyed the vampire rig(her powers weren't at their usual finesse due to the dark magic of the vampire's island, and unless she took down the rig, the shield wouldn't come down and no reinforcements could come and Gambit/Janus/Storm would have died).

That wasn't my point at all. The point was you accusing Jeffrey of being a villain. Which is absurd given the story

Either just say you're not serious about the conversation and you're just throwing stuff out there because you're bored or be rational if you genuinely want to discuss the topic.

If it's not serious we can let the conversation devolve into a less serious conservation.

[yogaflame]

That wasn't my point at all. The point was you accusing Jeffrey of being a villain. Which is absurd given the story

I said, jokingly, that he was an evil mutant(implying Emma was a suitable teacher for him because of this). Killing an innocent person intentionally with your power is a very clear-cut case of being called 'evil'.

[ExodusCloak]

I said, jokingly, that he was an evil mutant(implying Emma was a suitable teacher for him because of this). Killing an innocent person intentionally with your power is a very clear-cut case of being called 'evil'.

It wasn't very clear that he knew she was not one of Bogans puppets. And he was trying to escape his kidnappers it's not as clear cut. As with when Storm had to kill that human. Additionally, Mary Holland's eyes were bleeding which alludes to her being compromised by Bogan

The original point was Claremont is 1000% canon. Storm puts her hand on Emma's shoulder in a comforting way and tells I trust you to guide Jeffrey. Showing that they have moved on to being cordial with each other. And then your point was Jeffrey was a villain too. In the context of the story it was meant to address their past and have Storm give Emma the benefit of the doubt which Storm even says

[yogaflame]

Storm has been cordial to her greatest enemies in many of Claremont's stories. Storm let off a bit of steam in their earlier fight and was feeling magnanimous. Later stories showed that the matter was not so tidy after all.

As you say, we must consider all the writers runs equally.

[Centrions]

OMG, this sounds like something Claremont would actually have done. Get Storm pregnant from Shaw.

Ah great I threw up in my mouth a little from that thought in my head.

[sureshot]

To the OP very much yes. If Jean was forgiven by the X-men for committing genocide under the influence of Phoenix. Scarlet Witch not facing any real retribution for nearly committing genocide against the Mutant race. Magneto having done some pretty horrible things and accepted into the X-men. Not giving Emma forgiveness would be hypocritical. I do fully expect the writers to portray the X-men as hypocritical.

[darkalamator]

The X-men are hypocritical yes. They are controversial too. I don´t think they are "heroes". They do many grey area deeds. They claim superior moral grounds but I doubt it. The lines that make many of their member villains or heroes at some point are blurry. I like it when they get political. That is why I love the series. That is why I love character like Emma (or Jean or Logan or Scott or Rogue...) that well... You know? You never know... are they good? They mean good but they have their moments of not being so good? Do they mean good always? Are they fanatics? How far are they willing to go? That is why it is fun to read the X Men and less fun to read the Avengers-holier than thou as they are.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Mystique is far more of what people are making out of Emma. Mystique is the one you can't trust and almost always turns around and stabs everyone in the back, but they still keep letting HER back into the Xmen, or at least around them.

Emma spent just as much time as Rogue atoning for her sins. ALL of the Xmen have done bad things.

[BBeeryan]

Should Emma be forgiven by Storm? Absolutely not. As its been stated plainly, she used a gun to switch bodies with Storm. She chose to steal her body. That was her intent. And this happened after Storm was tortured for countless hours. So as White Queen of the HFC she intentionally abducted, fondled, humiliated and telepathically tortured Storm BEFORE she purposefully switched bodies with Storm to murder her friends and do with her body as she pleased. These things are unforgivable. And we haven't even considered the slack Storm cuts her all the shit she's pulled recently. There's always gonna be bad blood between these two.

The other X-Men are free to forgive Emma as they see fit.

[butterflykyss]

It doesn't matter that they were unnamed, there were countless mutants being killed, and it was stated that there was no universal cure for M-Pox, which was fatal. I don't mean she did absolutely nothing when I say "inaction", I mean she should've destroyed the cloud and fought the Inhumans if that's what they chose to do. The Inhumans would not be wiped out if the cloud was destroyed, so better to remove the immediate threat to innocent lives.

Those mutants deaths were not the result of Ororo's inaction though. She was actively with the help of the Xmen going across the globe to gather mutants. And the only reason there was not an effort on her part to destroy the cloud is due to the agreement made with the Inhumans in an method that would benefit both parties and avert war. And she did choose to fight them when all other peaceful methods were exhausted.

This thread is asking if she should be forgiven and I only see her evil actions being debated, but we can't answer that question with only those things being discussed.

The evil she has done far outweighs the good. Even if you are to look at the good, where is she at now? She ended the IvX murdering innocent Inhumans and she has yet to face a trial or justice for those crimes.

Okay, sure, good, then she's unforgivable.

If by she you mean Emma is unforgivable then I agree with you.

There were 20-30 years that passed since those stories you point to as evidence of her irredeemable nature. How can consistency with characterization decades old instead of consistency with characterization only weeks/months old be a good thing? Maybe I will agree with you once I've read those stories, but then I'll still be disappointed by Marvel for different reasons.

Yes but she has had some areas where she wasn't fighting on the side of good including when she was Phoenix and helped in orchestrating the destruction of Wakanda with Namor and also let's not forget her most recent move in killing innocent inhumans.

Okay, but if that's the case then can anyone be redeemed? Do we have to be altruistic in doing all things in order to be good?

Sure people can be redeemed but when you are constantly finding yourself in a place where you need redemption it becomes a point when enough is enough and you have to call a spade a spade. The woman innately is evil and departing from that is going against her nature.

It was disappointing to me because I had hoped that Emma would take up Scott's efforts to do what was necessary for the future of mutants despite what anyone might think of her - except Marvel decided she was gonna kill innocent Inhumans. Scott would not have condoned that.

Not according to Emma. She was doing what he wanted as he knew him the best.