View Poll Results: Should she be forgiven?

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  • Yes

    106 61.99%
  • No

    52 30.41%
  • Unsure

    13 7.60%
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  1. #961
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    1. Ororo didn't allow the cloud to roam free. She did what she felt was appropriate which included the removal of people/mutants in harm's way as well as blowing the cloud away from largely populated areas. Medusa and the inhumans allowed to roam free but Ororo chose the option to prevent war. Also proof is required from canon if you are to assert her actions or lack thereof caused deaths. Ororo worked with the inhumans as longed as could have because Medusa declared anyone who tried to destroy it an act of war against the inhumans. Ultimately Ororo wasn't responsible for any deaths, BB was as he released the cloud and her actions helped to avert what could have been a deadly war.
    I can't be asked to not think about the ramifications of the stories I read, can I? "Proof"? I'm not making a ridiculous claim like "Storm totally forgave Emma off-panel, and that's why they worked together", I'm simply coming to a logical conclusion. Storm and her team have to sleep right? And there must be mutants they weren't able to reach. If she had saved everyone, there'd be no tension at the possibility that the Terrigen could kill innocents. And Medusa declaring the destruction or containment or whatever of the Terrigen an act of war makes the Inhuman royalty tyrannical and the X-Men cowards. I'm not calling Storm a killer, selfish, or evil, I'm saying that the way the story was written, at best Storm and her team come off as enablers, and at worst they come off as cowards.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    2. Because it's not heroic. You can't give Emma credit when her intentions were misplaced.
    Redemption doesn't have to be heroic or altruistic, if everyone who ever started on redemption wasn't heroic or altruistic they wouldn't be redeemed.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    3. Emma and Ororo have always had bad blood and thar incident in AvX extends from that moment in the issues you mentioned you haven't read yet. Emma mislead everyone into believing Cyclops died at the result of the Inhumans and used that as a selling point as to why the inhumans had to be stopped. I will agree that ororo had decided to go to war after my died but Emma lies help drive home the idea inhumans could not be trusted and nothing short of war would work to stop the cloud. Medusa even said had they presented the findings from beast they would have destroyed the cloud themselves.
    Okay, Storm and her team knew for months that "Cyclops" had been executed and they did nothing, mentioning him as a reason for the war was for Emma and for the narrative that the truth would come out. And sure, let's take the word of the queen who sanctioned an execution and allowed the deaths of innocent mutants to continue because the alternative would've inconvenience her people, I'm sure she would've destroyed the clouds if only the X-Men had asked nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    4. it's not about him knowingly putting her that situation. it's about him giving a child the decision to take lives after the situation happened. he didn't value life and he embedded those values when he allowed her to make that choice. Xavier taught children to control their powers with the message of unity. That was never Cyclops thing which is why many within the MU viewed him as a terrorist.
    There were many lives on the line, she was the only person available, and Scott didn't direct her to kill. The situation didn't arise directly from Scott's actions, so he cannot be blamed for Idie being in that situation, and "giving her the decision" isn't the same as making her kill. Marvel wanted the readers to understand both sides, so the drove the point home that the X-Men would've been killed if not for Idie. This is not a black and white situation, which is what Marvel wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    5. As much as you argue that Scott would not condone the killings, which tour denial of tgis does demonstrate your indirect acknowledgement that Emma was evil by doing such an act, Emma confirmed Cyclops would have wanted her to kill them.
    Why do you take her word here but not anywhere else? Do you want me to admit that it was wrong for Emma to do that to Scott? It was wrong, he never would've wanted her to kill innocents. The "Scott" she projected in DoX was pretty true to the real man, but her actions and words in IvX do not represent him (and are out of character for her as well, in my opinion). It's silly that you or anyone would think otherwise. Don't hold so steadfastly to this idea that Emma was being honest here.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    6. Msny heroes have grieved at the lost of a loved one and some with greater power than Emma but they didn't kill innocent people because of it. case in point ororo when wolverine died. She unleashed a power thst could have destroyed everyone ok the planet but she held it until beast could get her far away from the earth as to not harm anyone.
    Everyone is different from each other, I'm not saying that her mental state should grant her forgiveness, I'm saying it should grant her understanding. Context matters.

  2. #962
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    she believed that it would though, whether she accomplished he goal is not relevant.
    She tried to give him a hero's death in DoX but after all that got him was being called a terrorist, by his friends and family, she then decided she would commit acts of terrorism to preserve his name? Your logic isn't sound.

  3. #963
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    For someone to be forgiven, they need to express remorse for their wrongdoings and seek atonement. If we are discussing the stuff she's done since DoX, Emma has not shown remorse as far as I know. To be honest if given the chance, I think she'd do it all again with no regrets other than the final execution of her plan at the end of IvX didnt go as expected. I dont read any inHuman titles but Im actually surprised she isnt being hunted by those vengeful for the slaughter she caused. She should be a wanted woman

    Like Namor who more than once said that he did not regret his acts in AvX or Time Runs Out and if he needs he would do it all over again. Even so this does not seem to be a problem for the X-mens and Jean since he will be part of X-men Red.

    If remembered well during AvX Scott also stated that except for the death of Xavier would do everything again because in the end the mutants received a new opportunity.

    And honestly Emma would not be wrong to think that way because with two clouds the saturation point would have happened much faster and we would have more deaths.

    I have problems with Emma using Sentinels think it was out of character. She is more the type who would use Ashura to kill BB and would have Medusa watch before killing her .

    I also ask myself the same question why nobody hunt BB for their acts? Or Wanda? Or Maria Hill? Or Tony Stark? Or Beast? Or BP? Or Shi'ars? If remember correctly Thor helped Hydra for months .

    Why only Scott and Emma get this treatment?

  4. #964
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Like Namor who more than once said that he did not regret his acts in AvX or Time Runs Out and if he needs he would do it all over again. Even so this does not seem to be a problem for the X-mens and Jean since he will be part of X-men Red.

    If remembered well during AvX Scott also stated that except for the death of Xavier would do everything again because in the end the mutants received a new opportunity.

    And honestly Emma would not be wrong to think that way because with two clouds the saturation point would have happened much faster and we would have more deaths.

    I have problems with Emma using Sentinels think it was out of character. She is more the type who would use Ashura to kill BB and would have Medusa watch before killing her .

    I also ask myself the same question why nobody hunt BB for their acts? Or Wanda? Or Maria Hill? Or Tony Stark? Or Beast? Or BP? Or Shi'ars? If remember correctly Thor helped Hydra for months .

    Why only Scott and Emma get this treatment?
    well the stuf with Namor hasnt played out yet so I'll reserve judgement

    Scott was never fully accepted back into the good graces of the X-men. He had to build his own offshoot team of misfits whom were also ostracized and was never fully forgiven, even in death where he remained demonized.

    The Scarlet Witch was hunted. She went into hiding but there were those that actively sought her out. The X-men had bigger fish to fry though than to worry about her but when the time came, they did go after her (Children's Crusade)

    How is Emma getting this treatment? Again, I dont read the Inhuman books but is she being hunted anywhere? To my knowledge, she is free, out and doing her own thing and nobody is thinking about her, much like many of those characters you mention
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-21-2017 at 08:57 PM.

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